User Forum

soultrane28 · #1 26-03-2010, 05:32

I recently lost use of my beloved mpc 3000 and am thinking about picking up another one or ditching it all together and getting maschine... mostly for the ability to use rex files and sampling.

when i was using the mpc, i could change the swing on each individual part in a program, so, for instance, i could have the hi-hats swinging at 64%, one snare hitting right on the beat (50%), and snare ghost hits etc. nudged at different swing levels etc etc...

is it true the only way to do this on maschine is to call up a whole new scene?

and is it true there are only 8 scenes?

in other words, i would have to use one scene for hi hats, one scene for kicks, one scene for snares, etc., if i wanted to apply different quantizations to different instruments in a program?

if so, that is a dealbreaker and i must say it is kind of whack... what drummer worth his salt would play every part of his kit with exactly the same swing?

please tell me this is not true.

can u not record parts in at whatever quantization you want within each scene on each pad?

ruffwoods · #2 26-03-2010, 05:42

yo im not the most knowdlegdable person about the maschine, but from what i heard, u are right, everything stays at the same swing. correct me if im wrong tho people

soultrane28 · #3 26-03-2010, 05:52

wow i hope that's not right... that would really suck...

i don't understand that... you can't set the quantization for an individual instrument within a program?

that makes about as much sense as a song in logic applying the same quantization to every midi track in the song, and you having to open up another song to put a different feel on a different track...

why would the designers do this? i was so ready to get the maschine but this will not work the way i want it to.

i would have to set up a scene for kick 1, a scene for kick 2, a scene for snare 1, a scene for snare 2, a scene for snare fills, a scene for hit hats, etc etc...

i could fill up 8 scenes very quickly just programming a single kit, which would defeat the whole purpose of getting maschine over my mpc...

wow please tell me this is not true and i'm missing something?

Lotuz · #4 26-03-2010, 06:14

Replace the word scene by group and you're right. It would be nice if you could give each sound its own swing setting.

soultrane28 · #5 26-03-2010, 06:28

i don't get this at all.

on the mpc 3k, you pick the quantization you want to apply to the part, record the part, and there it is...

so, say, you set the swing to 64% (a heavy swing), and you record your open hi hat part... then, you go back in and set the swing to 55%, and you record your closed hi hat... this makes the open hi hat come very close to the closed hat and u can just play around and adjust it till u get it the way you want...

it is an AMAZING oversight to me that you would not be able to have any nuanced control like this in maschine...

you can't record different quantization values into your patterns? one quantization value applies for the whole pad bank?

wow.

damn.

that sucks.

is there no workaround?

better start saving for another mpc...

Lotuz · #6 26-03-2010, 06:39

soultrane28 wrote:

on the mpc 3k, you pick the quantization you want to apply to the part, record the part, and there it is...
you can't record different quantization values into your patterns? one quantization value applies for the whole pad bank?

No, you can record different quantization values, but you can only use these:

1/1
1/2
1/4
1/8
1/16
1/32
1/64
1/128
1/1T
1/2T
1/4T
1/8T
1/16T
1/32T
1/64T
OFF

Your problem would be solved if they added the swing setting to this list.

phil909 · #7 26-03-2010, 09:03

soultrane28 wrote:

mostly for the ability to use rex files and sampling.

be prepared for a massive oversight in using rex files too.

you cannot preview/audition the rex files from maschine's browser.
you will either have to buy or use a 3rd party piece of software to hear the file before you load it into maschine.

then, once the rex is imported and you find that your programmed hi hats (for example) would sound better if they followed the rex file timing - there is no option to groove quantise or groove lock your parts together so you either have to quantise to the grid or move every beat a click at a time.... not ideal.

however, maschine is excellent i think you won't regret buying one.
it has a few shortcomings but that list grows shorter with each update. i'm hoping the groove functions get added very soon.

in the meantime - running maschine with ableton live (and using the new midi drag & drop) will allow you to do everything you want to do - the groove control you have in ableton is excellent is is a great example for the NI devs to look at.

soultrane28 · #8 26-03-2010, 13:56

@phil909;

thanks for the heads up...

the way i was doing things via the mpc was soooo slow and it was a struggle to get the mpc to sync with the computer...

you had to get the whole track happening from a rhythm standpoint, then dump to a daw, and then start adding audio.

BUT, looking at these limitations gets me wondering if maschine really is the solution... sounds like it might get pretty frustrating...

and, the whole thing that got me excited about maschine was not having to use it in conjunction with a full blown daw host but to do the tracks all from a pattern based environment with sampling.

the reason to use an mpc is so you DON'T get caught nudging / grabbing / otherwise mousing around with grooves, but instead, you play them and use the mpc swing algorithms to help when u need it.

its just so funny / frustrating to me that a software based app like maschine would be so far behind, groove option wise, an os that was designed to use on a 20 yr old processor (mpc 60, 3000, et).

do not any of the n.i. design team use an mpc to program drums?

AikiGhost · #9 26-03-2010, 14:37

In the 1.5 update you can apply swing amount by group. Yes there are only 8 groups per project, but its so much faster to load a new project in maschine than with hardware its not really an issue.

Lotuz · #10 26-03-2010, 14:40

Soultrane28 has a good point that you don't want your bassdrum in group A, your snare in group B, your hi-hat in group C, etc if you want each sound to have a different swing.

soultrane28 · #11 26-03-2010, 15:09

@ aiki... that means on a computer about 500x's more powerful (or more) than the processor in an old mpc, the mpc gives you 8x's as many swing options per program than maschine

(i.e., mpc = 1 swing setting for 64 pads, maschine = 1 swing for 8 groups.)

is there a workaround?

say for instance, i program my open hi hats, and then decide i want to nudge them closer to the beat.... can i grab all of them in an editor and slide them over to the desired spot, and in real time?
---
it just seems so wierd to me that they would not allow you, on a groove box, to change the groove quantization every time you record...

seems like that would be about the FIRST thing that would get implemented, if the idea is to really give the user lots of control over timing.

Lotuz · #12 26-03-2010, 15:29

soultrane28 wrote:

is there a workaround?

say for instance, i program my open hi hats, and then decide i want to nudge them closer to the beat.... can i grab all of them in an editor and slide them over to the desired spot, and in real time?

You can record on 1/16 for example, then select a fine grid like 1/128 and nudge the selected notes forward or backward.

soultrane28 · #13 26-03-2010, 15:34

Lotuz wrote:

You can record on 1/16 for example, then select a fine grid like 1/128 and nudge the selected notes forward or backward.

that sounds pretty good. is it fast to do that?

it would be an improvement over the mpc if you could record with the quantize off and then go in quickstyle and drag the notes you want to the way you want them...

can u move then without a grid or do you have to snap the events to a grid?

Lotuz · #14 26-03-2010, 15:48

Let me test this for you. I'll also record the 1/16 1/128 nudge swing, so you can hear what that sounds like.

---
Example:

http://www.zshare.net/audio/74225813990b61e1/

soultrane28 · #15 26-03-2010, 16:07

thanks for that.

so, if i understood what you did, you recorded it in straight, and then nudged the kick through various points on the grid, and you were able to keep the high hat / snare pattern in the same pad bank untouched, right?

if you can do that, (and if you had more options than, say, 32, 64, 96, and 128, for instance) that would be really sweet.

is there a way to turn the grid off so you can just drop the notes wherever you want them on the timeline?

what is the resolution of the sequencer, anyway? i imagine its something like 960 ppqn? it seems like the sequencing engine inside maschine has more in common with a daw than with an mpc...