User Forum

mikehende_Tf · #1 13-11-2004, 02:08

I called up Tech support and asked them if with their latest version, it is possible to beatmatch songs perfectly "without' having to use "Headphones", they said that all I have to do for "most" songs is to use the "sync" button, I tried that but it doesn't work for a "lot" of songs.

I have done searches on this site for Beatmatching and from what I gather from reading a lot of the posts on this topic, it seems that Traktor just does NOT beatmatch very well even if you use the sync button but I was hoping that this may been the case with the older versions.

Can anyone tell me please if with the latest version of Traktor, one can beatmatch "without" Headphones? If so, how please? Thanks.

djHSL · #2 13-11-2004, 04:07

My experience is that Traktor beatmatches perfectly if you have a well defined beat grid (one beat marker, and an accurate bpm), the "snap" button set, and the "synch" button turned on for both decks.

Other users don't bother so much with beat grids or permanent synching. Hopefully one of them will respond with their experience.

But ... why don't you want to use headphones? Even with perfect beatmatching I still use headphones to balance out volume or equalisation as the two tracks come together.

Qyasogk · #3 13-11-2004, 04:25

that isn't what dj's do. traktor is made for djs. what you want is MixMeister. no headphones needed.

djHSL · #4 13-11-2004, 04:42

Here is an older thread with some really good discussions of beat matching techniques that are different to mine.

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/trak...hreadid=469 4

Hope you find it helpful.

pixeltrance · #5 13-11-2004, 10:24

Why in Gods name would anyone want to use Traktor without using headphones? Strange indeed...

What's next? To play at an party without even being there...? Just record a mix at home so you can REALLY make sure it's perfect. Then you can just send it to the club and they can just put it on. Make sure you include a picture of yourself as well that they can put up in the DJ booth...

Beatmatching is the most basic skill of a DJ and if you can't be asked to learn how to do that...well then maybe DJ'ing isn't for you...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Traktor would be such a better product if they just took away that sync button.

Or maybe they should include keymatching, phrasematching and automatic trackselection into Traktor as well since it would make my job soooooo much easier...

djHSL · #6 13-11-2004, 11:19

... Tick

... Tick!

... Tick!!

Pixeltrance, you've been looking at my wish-list!! *grin*

pixeltrance · #7 13-11-2004, 11:29

Well...x-mas is coming up soon.
Have you been a good boy...?

2kilo_Tf · #8 13-11-2004, 12:45

Beatmatching is the most basic skill of a DJ and if you can't be asked to learn how to do that...well then maybe DJ'ing isn't for you...

Beatmatching was a basic dj skill, there is no point [IMHO] of using software that does not match beats perfectly, it's like digging with a shovel while standing next to a JCB...?

The sooner people let go of the past traditions, and embrace the new the better...? Beatmatching [turntable style] is dead, a waste of time. We need to find other avenues for creativity in the mix...? Need to develop and invent new skills...?

I agree with pixeltrance, Traktor IMHO should either totally drop the sync function [back to traditional skills] or expand it to so users can make and edit beatgrids perfectly [eg Live], this half measure the software currently uses is worse then either option...?

That said users will still need beatmatching skills to fine tune and tweak performances, its just not as necessary as in the past...?

Controversial, [flame-on] maybe but the arguement is very similar to die-hard turntablists that refuse to move on...

pixeltrance · #9 13-11-2004, 14:46

@ 2kilo

You seem a bit confused. First you say that beatmatching isn't a necessary skill and then you say that you need it...

Yes, it still is necessary to know how to beatmatch and also to have a back-up solution since computer software and hardware can act up for no apparent reason. Computer gremlins perhaps...?
I will never go to a gig with just my computer.
However, when I say that you need to know how to beatmatch I mean that you should know how to beatmatch with the tools that you are using. There's no need to know how to beatmatch on a couple of 1200's if you like me don't even own any vinyl.

As for beatgrids, they work excellent for me. The placement of the grid isn't very accurate but that doesn't really matter since what's important isn't the exact placing of the grid but instead that the tempo is exact. I just pitchbend the track into sync and then due to the beatgrids the tracks will stay in sync until the tracks run out.
If I'm really ambitious I can use the set button to correct the offset but to be honest I can't be bothered to use it.

And like I wrote the other day on another thread, Ableton Live rocks! It's awesome for playing livesets or doing remixes but as a DJ tool it's far from perfect. Maybe version 5 or 6 or...how about a Ableton Live DJ Edition with a proper DJ interface? Now that would be yummy indeed

I agree that we as computer DJ's need to be creative and invent new skills and techniques but that doesn't mean that you have to give up on other skills.

I end with a Chinese pro-verb:
Knowledge is a treasure that no one can take away from you.

PhilL · #10 13-11-2004, 16:51

Originally posted by pixeltrance
[BYes, it still is necessary to know how to beatmatch and also to have a back-up solution since computer software and hardware can act up for no apparent reason. Computer gremlins perhaps...?

Well said.... While you can get away with not knowing how to match properly your mixes will ALWAYS reflect the lack of the skill in the sound.... ALWAYS. It in many ways comes down to a lack of attenion to detail. I'm no exception if I get to be a slack barstid when I mix, I let my timing get off and windup mixing on off beats to two tracks. I train / force myself to listen for it all the time but if you don't know beat matching you would not even know to listen for this. Learn Beat matching well and your mixes WILL become much cleaner. Sure Traktor is supposed to match beats and it does mostly pretty well but since it has no ability to match bars and measures that is your job, Its more subtle and harder to do, but as a DJ its YOUR job!

There's no need to know how to beatmatch on a couple of 1200's if you like me don't even own any vinyl.

Sure there isn't a need but being able to at least know how its done and how you might translate it onto Traktor definitely helps your mix skills on Traktor.

As for beatgrids, they work excellent for me. The placement of the grid isn't very accurate but that doesn't really matter since what's important isn't the exact placing of the grid but instead that the tempo is exact. I just pitchbend the track into sync and then due to the beatgrids the tracks will stay in sync until the tracks run out.

Yeah thats the way I just throw them in to provide some base stability and then go for it. More than anything being able to bend stuff without really thinking about it is the key I reckon, do this well and you have traktor matching down.

And like I wrote the other day on another thread, Ableton Live rocks! It's awesome for playing livesets or doing remixes but as a DJ tool it's far from perfect. Maybe version 5 or 6 or...how about a Ableton Live DJ Edition with a proper DJ interface? Now that would be yummy indeed

I love traktor longtime...

and the more I use Live the more I like it for what it can do for you... BUT they are two different tools, combined in a set they provide huge flexibility and a tremendous challenge. That being said Traktor for me IS THE S**T as a Live DJ tool and LIVE is THE S**T as a LIVE PA tool. I use them accordingly.

Ahh moved to Germany Now huh? Trying to be close to the action for the 2.6 release then are ya? It is always intersting to read your location tag to see where you have jetted off to now. Lucky begger!!!!

Phil

pixeltrance · #11 13-11-2004, 17:15

@ PhiL
I agree completely. Beatmatching is a basic skill that is used as a stepping stone for other skills and one that makes it easier for you to understand other aspects of DJ'ing such as song structure and phrasematching.

I also agree that having vinyl skills will most likely be good for using Traktor as well. Since I have been into psy-trance since day 1 I have never bothered with vinyl since most psy-trance isn't released on vinyl unlike most other types of dance music. Almost everyone in the psy-trance world spins CD's.
However, I have been thinking about getting a pair of 1200's though just for the fun of it and like you said, I'm sure it will benefit my Traktor skills as well.

Hehe, yeah right now I'm in Germany. What else to do when you picked up a new German girlfriend?

I still travel quite a bit though as you can see on my agenda - http://www.da-la.com/pages/agenda.html
Can't imagine staying at the same place all the time!

dlinke · #12 13-11-2004, 18:07

You are playing live...

... ju just decided to mix a song that curiously does not match perfectly with the sync button, you can see, if you put it on "loop" that even visually the loop is incorrect.... why that?

The computer works mathematicly and makes a podered average of the BPM on the song. so, if your bpm is not constant, you will have to beatmatch manually. you set the loop in an 8 bar mode manully and start poitching up or down to make the match perfect. you cue to one point of the song and still pitch up or down, you push the cue pause button lots to start doing the proccess again and again until the match goes perfect!!!

Ah, that is a good sensation!!!... that song you knew it was going to get you in trouble has passed smoothly!!!... but wait!!!! if the BPM is still not constant you have to repeat this with the next song, cause it wont beatmatch exactly, so you put it fast.... Start doing the same thing again and again until the song comes to its end!! but you have to do it constantly, cause it allways keeps on falling out of sync!!!
At the end... it passed smoothly once again... maybe noone notices that the song was a little out of sync... yes that fu$%&%" echo snaredrum sound...... well, noone seemed to care... Duuuuude!!! i ran out of trouble in a very elegant way!!.... i have to learn how to beatmatch this song corectly, cause it's too good to leave it out of the set.

THAT IS WHY YOU NEED HEADPHONES. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE GOT TO LEARN TO BEATMATCH OL' SKOOL STYLE.

Keep on practicing dude!!!

dlinke · #13 13-11-2004, 18:12

@pixeltrance

How you doing buddeh, how was brazil at the end of the day?

Still gotta come to Venezuela!

pixeltrance · #14 13-11-2004, 18:31

@ dlinke

Brazil was cool as it always is. I was only there for a couple of weeks this time but played 4 gigs so I'm not complaining. It was also good to see old friends since I was living and playing there for 7 months last year.
And then we have the Brazillian girls...

Venezuela is really cool as well but do take great care if and when you get to Caracas. It's by far the most dangerous city I have ever been to and I've been to a few by now. So many people get robbed there and when I was there last time a friend got shot and killed! And I almost got car jacked one night by two guys with guns!
It's very beautiful city though and the people are really nice. Except the robbers of course

2kilo_Tf · #15 14-11-2004, 04:11

@pixeltrance

not confused

for me Traktor still emulates decks too closely, meaning the user has to correct drifting bpm's while performing. This requires beatmatching skills that are unnecessary as software is capable of solving these problems [eg Live]. If solved beatmatching skills are then reduced to just fine tuning and tweaks...

I've found traktors beat recogonition poor [alway slightly behind] meaning one bar audio files will not loop smoothly unless the loop markers are moved manually which without a numeric display is a little hit and miss [the other way is to make a 3 bar audio file and just loop the middle bar].

Traktor's perfect if people want to replace cd decks with more options. I know being tough on Traktor but as a skill set has been taken away I'm just looking for areas that can make up for it...

I know what you mean about Live's lack of DJ/performance features. Been bashing around their forum but most of those guys are really happy muso's having come from linear software like cubase, they don't really understand DJ tools and how they can be used....