DJM-5000 Soundcard with Traktor Scratch Pro

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by Enyko, Apr 5, 2010.

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  1. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    ---FROM MY POST ON PIONEER DJ FORUM---

    Hey guys,

    After doing some research, I purchased the DJM-5000 for a number of reasons. The main reason is the internal sound card. I was told by a number of people including Pioneer Pro DJ's DJ Jay & DJ Unique (at MBLVX) that the 5000 will be able to connect to TSP without an external sound card (Audio 4/8). This is the main reason I purchased this unit, because of my rig, I don't have room for a sound card.

    I've tried many times to connect the 5000 to TSP v 1.2 and it doesn't seem to find any input routing from the DJM sound card. I'm new to Traktor so maybe my settings are wrong somehow but I don't think so.

    Can someone please let me know how the connections and setting should be to connect the DJM-5000 to Traktor Scratch Pro using the DJM's internal sound card?

    Macbook Pro 10.6 (Snow Leopard)

    Thanks!
  2. DjStrategy

    DjStrategy NI Product Owner

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    1,062
    First off, Hi and welcome to the Forum!:)
    Sorry to tell you, but no Pioneer mixer is Traktor Scratch Certified....which means No timecode support ONLY internal play!
  3. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    I'm sure you can use the mixer's internal soundcard to run Traktor but currently not for actual timecode use.
  4. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    First of all, thanks for the prompt replies. Still no replies on the Pio boards :angry:

    DjStrategy - So what does "Traktor Scratch Certified" really mean anyway? I don't see the difference between this mixer and the Korg let's say. Also, what do you mean by "No timecode support ONLY internal play!" Sorry, I'm a newbie.

    TeLLy - What do you mean by running Traktor but not for timecode use?

    More info;

    I'm using my S3700 decks with the timecode disc. I can send that signal to the mixer. But (if I understand correctly) the mixer isn't sending it to TSP. TSP is only sending signals to the mixer, right? Can't I also send the timecode signal from my 3700's via their soundcard (USB out)?

    I'm almost 100% positive the Pioneer Pro DJ's at Mobile Beat were running TSP from their 5000 without an external sound card.

    I will be so bummed if there is no way to do this!

    Thanks guys!
  5. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Moderator

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    @ Enyko, can you provide any links to the Pio forum that claim TSP certification?
    It seems odd that Pio would say the mixer is certified when it isnt (currently).
    Id be interested to read this info.

    Maybe there is something in the pipeline but im not aware of anything.


    For a Mixer to be Certified it has to be approved by N.I. and be able to process the timecode signal.
    Also hardware companies need to apply for Certification and maybe Pioneer didnt apply.

    You will be able to use the mixers soundcard to play Traktor internally using a midi controller or the laptop keyboard. Any soundcard has this ability.

    A mixer needs to be Certified to be able to use Timecode as the Mixers soundcard replaces the Audio 8 soundcard.

    Karlos
  6. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    Karlos - sorry if I misspoke, it doesn't say anywhere that it is "Certified". I was just asking what that really means. Thank you for explaining.

    Still, like I said, I was pretty sure I saw them running traktor without a sound card. But maybe it was via midi? I do know for a fact that the DJ's told me I would be able to do this with time code and no audio 4/8. Nonetheless, I guess that was incorrect.

    Do you know if I can send the timecode from my 3700's to TSP?

    Enyko
  7. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    1) Internal play as in you use your keyboard, mouse, or MIDI to control deck transport functions, as opposed to "scratch" or timecode control
    2) The Korg has a totally different soundcard. Traktor Scratch Pro detects this soundcard as one it's supposed to be able to work with, so it works. Currently I don't think Traktor recognizes the Pioneer's soundcard as one it can work with in terms of timecode, so it won't work. However you should be able to play using internal mode.
    3) I wouldn't be surprised if the DJs you quoted earlier were using Pioneer CD decks to control Traktor, making it appear as if they were using timecode. The Pioneer CDJ 200s, 900s, and 2000s have HID control compatible with Traktor Pro. HID being a sort of MIDI on steroids, you don't NEED timecode to use your jog wheels to control Traktor with the CDJ units I just listed.
    The only way to send timecode to TSP is with an Audio4, Audio8, and a currently-certified mixer (see the Certfied Mixers page on NI's main site).
  8. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    TeLLy - Wow! Although I'm completely bummed about this, I SO appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. Starting to make a lot of sense.

    I hate to have to use TSP internally, especially since it's also one of the main reasons I got my S3700's! I sort of feel like I made a couple major purchasing mistakes with the 3700's and 5000's.

    So please let me know if I understand correctly. With my setup (2 S3700's, DJM 5000 & TSP), I have these two options;

    1.) Run TSP with the A8 sound card: I'd be able to control the functions of TSP with the time code cd's (or jump drive) via my 3700's. Then the 5000 would be simply used like any other mixer and I am not utilizing it's internal sound card. I feel like I didn't need this mixer with this solution.

    2.) Run TSP via midi: I'd be able to control the functions of TSP without an external sound card. By assigning midi functions to either the 3700's or the 5000 mixer. I understand midi mapping for the 3700's is unstable since there is no spinning platter support and no adequate .tsi file? (I tried the .tsi file provided on this forum but was never able to get it to work. The dialogue box where it asks you to "select categories" was all unselectable.). With this method, I don't get to utilize the 3700's awesome platter.

    So if I understand the above correctly, I feel like one way or another I didn't pick the correct gear to purchase because I'm not utilizing either to it's fullest potential.

    [just thought of this] would I be able run TSP with time code as well as midi? Meaning, if I did solution 1 and used the A8 & TC CD, would I also be able to map some midi functions on the 3700 and 5000 to TSP? Or is it one or the other (Time code or midi)?

    Enyko
  9. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    1) Good option. Until it's certified (if EVER, and I haven't heard it will ever be), the DJM-5000 will only function as a mixer. However, you can still plug it in via USB and given the correct software has been installed, you can use its MIDI section at the same time. Not a total waste of money but I've seen the sticker price on the 5000 and that's a hell of a price tag for a mixer + MIDI controller. I believe it surpasses some small nations' national debt.

    2) Takes more work and likely will be more rewarding IF you get it to work.

    I think perhaps you were just a little cloudy over the whole certification thing. Common mistake, yours might just be one of the more expensive ones ever made (sorry had to throw that in there, LOL), but you're not without options anyway.

    To answer your last question, yes timecode and MIDI can (and IMHO SHOULD) co-exist in a Traktor setup. I have my gear set up in such a way as to be able to add or subtract turntable timecode control seamlessly at a gig, even mid-set. Not too hard to do but there's a lot of reading involved (see my signature).
  10. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    "Until it's certified"? That's some hope! I wasn't aware this something that can be "fixed" by firmware or something. I figured it's the hardware of the sound card that is not permitting it to send the accurate signal to TSP. I'll be hopeful but not expect anything.

    Good to know I'll be able to use midi + timecode.

    Thanks TeLLy!
  11. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    Yeah better not hold your breath. There are some surprising choices for certification nowadays (Korg Zero series, the new Denons, and the craptastical Mackie d.x Pro series) but I've heard nothing about the Pioneer. They're a logical choice for certification considering they're the current industry standard, but again, not a word from anyone about certing the 5000.

    You could of course pull a TeLLy...
    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106462
  12. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    I won't be expecting that the Pio will be certified any time.

    TeLLy, did you see what it says under my name? "Forum Newcomer", yeah I won't be doing any Audio 8 hacking! ;o)
  13. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    LOL it's a bit of a stretch. But think of the possibilities! It's just a matter of 28 solder points and creative use of sheet metal cutters or a dremel....you know you wanna.
  14. Wyley

    Wyley NI Product Owner

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    The djm500 soundcard only delivers 3 stereo channels from a computer to the mixer.

    In order for a mixer to be scratch certified it needs to have a soundcard with at least 4 in and 4 out. Unfortunately the djm 5000 only has 6 out and no ins.

    Apparently the 5000 is a midi controller too.

    If Pioneer was to produce a dvs mixer it will probably be a 2ch mixer like the djm 900
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  15. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    Wyley - so what you're saying is that it's the actual hardware that will not allow the timecode play through. Meaning that the 5000 will never be able to become "certified" via a firmware update or something. It's physically impossible. Right?
  16. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    Oh snap the soundcard doesn't even have INPUTS? If so that's a hardware limitation for sure, one that totally derails the certification train (or clubs the certification seal, shakes the certification baby, etcetcetc).
  17. ---> jAylOw

    ---> jAylOw Account Suspended

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    you cant do dvs with djm 5000 cause you can only send music from pc to djm but not music from djm to pc. even a soundblaster awe32 was able to do more those days :D
  18. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    Way to kick him while he's down, LOL.

    Time for a new mixer, Enyko!
  19. Wyley

    Wyley NI Product Owner

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    The djm5000 is a good mixer but Pioneer should at least have given it some ins for recording.
  20. Enyko

    Enyko Forum Member

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    Yeah, next thing you guys will tell me is that the new mics I bought are garbage because they will no longer allow us to broadcast on that frequency range...oh wait, that did happen! :eek:

    Anyway, yeah, this sort of stinks but I am not getting a new mixer. I'll have to either wait for a good .tsi file for midi mapping or settle with running TSP with the audio 8.

    Here is more from Pioneer;

    "Sorry for the confusion -- the soundcard on the mixer is what would be referred to as a "6/2"; six outputs, two inputs. In order to run Traktor with timecode input you need at least a 4/4 to offer two decks worth of timecode TO the software and two virtual players' worth of audio FROM the software."

    The link to the forum;

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