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FS2 Absolute Mode vs Relative Mode

Discussion in 'General DJ Discussion' started by dj.vortex_Tf, Feb 1, 2005.

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  1. dj.vortex_Tf

    dj.vortex_Tf Forum Member

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    For turntablists that use FS2, have you found that FS2 keeps track of record movements better during absolute or relative mode? I find that FS2 keeps up with record movements better during relative mode than absolute. During slow drags or fast changes in direction, sometimes the waveform disappears and sound drops out for a second before the software finds the scratch point again in absolute mode (not due to needle skips). Eventually the software finds the original scratch point but not before a momentary pause in audio. This problem is nonexistent in the relative mode except with slow drags. Anyone else notice any differences for beat juggling/scratching in relative mode vs absolute not related to needle jumps?

    2X Tech 1200
    2X Ortofons
    TTM 54
    G4 867 MHz
    640 MB RAM
    OSX 10.3.7
    FS2
  2. Dj Hobbes

    Dj Hobbes NI Product Owner

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    This is something that is being addressed in the update for FS2, and also in Traktor 2.6.

    Hobbes
  3. dj.vortex_Tf

    dj.vortex_Tf Forum Member

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    I must be honest Hobbes, why would anyone want to put up with a system that does not accurately mimick record movements when there is one that actually does mimick record movements correctly. I was on the rane board and their version 1.3 is supposed to reduced needle drop latency to the point where it is not even an issue. Not to mention that the rane serato thing keeps track of record movements almost flawlessly in absolute mode. I will wait for the update, becuase I had to shell out $600 dollars for FS2. I think FS2 has the better sound quality and GUI (aside from the record label sticker thing, that's neat). But if the scratch live is becoming more appealing by the minute. I read on the rane board that the noisemap allows for better record movement tracking than the timecode because it does not compress as many bits in algorithm as timecode does. Do you know anything about this? And when is the update for FS2 coming out? Mexicannnn you seem to be the expert on the whole algorithm thing, so feel free to comment as well. Holla back and tell NI/Stanton to get to work if they want to keep their customers.
  4. mexicannnnnn

    mexicannnnnn NI Product Owner

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    Hmm If someone from NI would comment on the Timecode VS Noisemap thing it would be great.

    I don't know exactly what to say about it cuz I'm only looking at this as an outside user (I'm "black box" testing here).

    If I could see the code then I could comment more but I dont have access to that.

    There are however several post in the SSL forum that talk about the difference between the 2 systems... keep in mind that anything on the SSL forum will be a bit biased to SSL as well as anything here towards TFS.

    I'll try to get more info about the 2 different systems and maybe even more from Ms. Pinky's vylyl too.
  5. TFS_PM

    TFS_PM NI Product Owner

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    The exact details of the "timecode" vs "noisemap" can be considered technical information whose exact details is not made public. Also remember that often this technical brand naming is given a marketing spin, often just to set it apart from the competition.

    From my information the "timecode or noisemap" systems are not that different.

    However if you look at HW specs between the 2 systems, there are big differenences. Companies also often use different units or metrics to present the same data so that its difficult to compare. This is for a reason. For example:

    SSL THD + Noise on the outputs: 88db
    TFS2 THD+N overall : 0.015%

    It is interesting to note that for all other Rane products this THD+N specification is measured in % (which is standard). I haven't figured out a way to convert these to the same unit yet, but here another example:

    SSL Output dynamic range: 94 db
    TFS2 Output (DAC) dynamic range: 110db

    TFS2 is based on a studio quality audio interface and plays almost every file format currently available at all bit depths + sample rates upto 24bit/ 96kHz. Serato: lower quality AD/DA converters, play only Mp3, Wav, Aiff, @ 16 bit / 44.1 Khz.

    Features: Not enough room here to even begin. TFS2 way ahead.

    So if you really look at the numbers, and not comparing technology brand naming, its quite clear the TFS2 is way ahead.

    After the TFS2 SW update in a few weeks, and subsequent native Firewire driver updates on Mac and PC, it will be obvious that threads similar to this one will be moot.

    Best,
    TFSPM
  6. mexicannnnnn

    mexicannnnnn NI Product Owner

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  7. dj.vortex_Tf

    dj.vortex_Tf Forum Member

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    The argument is not over which system produces the better sound... everyone knows FS2 can go 24 bit and has autogain for sound files. FS2 sounds better. But, as far a keeping up with record movements, needle dropping, slow drags, etc. The serato live is better for that. I have used both systems. I don't have any firewire issues or system crashes. My FS2 works. I used a serato system that works and the serato kept up better with record movements on a system inferior to mine. The serato system was on an ibook and I have a powerbook with more RAM. It is obvious that NI/Stanton knows about the buffer/needle tracking issues, otherwise, the TFS moderator would not have responded with news of an update. The extra features of FS2 are great, but if it can't handle the basics then what's the point? I will wait for the update and see if it lives up to all the hype. If it doesn't, I am thru with FS. I am tired of waiting for them to get it right. I can buy third party software for recording, looping, pitch bend etc. I need a system that simulates vinyl.
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