maschine app for android

Discussion in 'iMaschine' started by mjtusky, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. mjtusky

    mjtusky Forum Member

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    will this ever happen?
    come on ni
  2. lowrizzle

    lowrizzle Forum Member

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    More like come on google.

    This is not really feasible at this time due to Android/Google's reluctance to introduce true low-latency audio. If you've ever used any Android audio apps you'll notice that there's about 100ms of latency from when you press the screen until the note is triggered. This isn't something NI is going to fix, it's a core feature missing from Android but obviously present on the IOS devices.

    Here's some background:

    http://www.androidannoyances.com/post/tag/low-latency-audio

    http://www.wiseandroid.com/post/2010/07/13/Intro-to-the-three-Android-Audio-APIs.aspx

    There's a little bit of hope for Android 4, but once again, you're barking up the wrong tree, complain to Google and Android, not NI.
  3. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    Any triggering delays could be resolved with quantisation, as one work around. Besides there are android apps out there which allow you to step sequence to quiet a high degree of polyphony on the Android.

    The ability to create loops on android and export them to Maschine is the real ask. It doesn't have to just be about triggered samples in real time. Creation more so than performance, should be the main goal here.
  4. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

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    1,866
  5. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    I suggest you google "Android music creation apps", you'll find there are music creation software out there. Maybe not on a par to the Ipad, but there are software programmers out there who have managed to get around the issue of latency.

    The Honeycomb Android 3.0 was the first to address the issue in a serious way with legal low level access to the core code for sound. There are a few budget apps which do a decent job of allowing you to creat simple loops. What they wont do is allow you to export your creations to your favorite daw. [At least not the last time i looked ].

    Admitedly Ipad is where the pro's go, and i guess Native doesn't want to be seen as anything less than professional, and so they like the rest of the majors haven't really tried with android.

    Here's a few links to those who are trying to provide the market with what it wants.

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/12/audiotool-sketch-android-music-app/
    http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/android-music-making-app-round-up-453135/2#!2
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhLXPmyGfSE"]Mikrosonic RD3 Groovebox for Android - YouTube[/ame]

    As for the power to to the processing, there a some decent spec android tablets out there, eg dual core 1ghz which have the same grunt as the Ipad. Ditto the latest Android phones. There are no excuses for not providing what the market wants.
  6. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

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    1,866
    You've got to remember that the ratio of people wishing to do low latency audio to the people buying Android phones in general is very, very small. I can't imagine it's on the top of Google's list, because it's not really good business sense. They've got other problems to work with. Anyway, it's only a matter of time before Android fixes it, possibly as early as 2025. :lol:
  7. lowrizzle

    lowrizzle Forum Member

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    I think you are still missing the very fundamental point. In order to have iMaschine function with a baseline level of quality, there needs to be enough device/os combinations for it to even make sense from a marketing standpoint. Additionally, it's still up to the software developer to work around the very sticky issue of low latency audio in Honeycomb. You may be able to give access to it to some components of the DAW software, but the reason nobody else has it yet is because Google has made it shamefully difficult to develop this for. This is NOT Native Instruments' fault.

    If you like step sequencing on the Android platform then use Caustic or other apps that do work quite well for it. But the responsible party here with no excuse is not NI who does not want to code a subpar product for a currently VERY sharded market, it's Google for sharding their own market and crippling their user's options.
  8. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    So a 'sharded market' is now the reason for not even a baseline level product?

    I'm not suggesting we should have an all singing all dancing product, but it would be a start if we had some kind of maschine related app from Native on the adroid platform.

    And yes, if step time programing was the only music creation mode available, i would settle for that so long as it allowed export of that loop back to maschine. Is this really too much to ask for.

    A modest program which recognises any android limitation and makes this clear to the user at the time of purchase. No one would complain about that. As i say others have managed it, i don't see why native with all their resources can't give it a try.
    ---

    My point was that the people who are likely to be attracted to the Mikro are the very people who are likely to have opted for the Android, so why not produce something for them which connects their mobile device, tablet or phone, to their Mikro's. Anything's better than nothing.
  9. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

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    1,866
    You're still missing the point. It's up to Google to make it technically feasible. Low enough latency still has not been achieved even for Android 4 Ice Cream Sandwich. Being in denial and barking up the wrong tree doesn't help the cause of Android fanboys.
  10. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    9,806
    I guess we're all missing the point, which is: when the money recouped from selling the product outweighs the money spent developing it, it'll get made.
  11. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    Good point, What if an existing apps developer wanted modify their existing prog to export to Maschine? Is this information, available?
  12. Cloudy

    Cloudy Forum Member

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    iMaschine is not worth making a fuss over unless it gets a major revamp or they do a new ios product.

    I'd pay abit more if it was worth using.
  13. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    Well you say that, but for those of us who prefer step sequencing to create a beat, the maschine interface is a bit of hard work. The ideal interface for this would be any kind of touch screen device, or maybe something like the launchpad, if it could be programmed via a third party program to interface with Maschine.

    {which is an interesting challenge how would you get a device like lauchpad to interface with maschine in step sequence mode. Tt works well enough as a midi note input /keyboard device.}

    Talk about a step sequencing, has anyone seen this....
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfFyvh_BGN8"]plane - YouTube[/ame]
    ---
    I guess those music apps whic have appeared on Android must be a figment of my imagination then...
  14. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

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    1,866
    Sequencers are one thing but you won't find any Android app capable of realtime low-latency audio. But even on the controller app side, the Android version of TouchOSC is severely limited and can't even load custom templates.
  15. Cloudy

    Cloudy Forum Member

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    85
    That's my point, iMaschine does nothing that you need, your just making a fuss over it.
  16. CH7

    CH7 Forum Member

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    Ideally i'd like to program a beat on an Android tablet app, then transfer it to the Maschine to to swap out the samples, and generally tidy the beat. I'd like the option to program in real time on the Maschine, or step time on a device with an interface which allows me to see a substantial amount of the sequence. Ideally i want that interaction between the the audio and the visual. Not just memory and audio.

    On a general point popular music seems to embody less memory than it use to. That trend is almost the definition of popular. The old complexity of music which encourage memory, has been replace by the relatively simple machine imposed groove. That element of 'pattern, complexity, and Memory' in music has been replace by the rap and the habit of borrowing from old grooves..

    Maybe that point is too general. It seems to me devices like mpc's, specifically Maschine, should be freeing your imagination, instead of being defined by any genra of music. Maschine shouldn't just be a machanical way to sample records or assemble beats, the way we did back in the days of disks, it should free your imagination to do what is otherwise incredible. The hardware shouldn't impose any restrictions on your creation of music, it should make the imposible, posible..

    I say open the box,
  17. lowrizzle

    lowrizzle Forum Member

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    What a nonsensical response.

    Just use the right tool for the job. If you want to step sequence then use Caustic or any number of other apps that are there already on Android. If you want low latency audio so that real audio app companies want to make apps for Android, direct your frustration where it belongs, at Google.
  18. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

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    1,866
    It boils down to using the right tool for the job. And right now, if you want to make music with multitouch tablets, iOS devices are the best tools for that with all the right ingredients that make them where it's at. Hoping and waiting for Android to catch up someday would be just torturing yourself.

    It is human stupidity that leads one to assume that the human operator has full control over the machines that we now use to make music. The truth is that these tools have a just as prominent an influence in the end result and are just as active participants in the compositional process as the composer. The composer is as much a tool as the tool itself.

    It's a common delusion that only we humans are the sole cause of the creative process. This results in the tool resisting the composer's will, hindering the process of creation. It originates from our inherent desire to control everything, even the prevention of death. This desire to be "controllers" works against us in every instance it can be found. Which is why artists often become frustrated that their machine will not cooperate. The point is that machines are something to collaborate with instead of the old ideal that machines are there to serve us.
  19. hyena666

    hyena666 NI Product Owner

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    109
    wow noiserot, i smell TOPY in your last post :)
  20. laserbeak

    laserbeak NI Product Owner

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    232
    i stopped reading this thread a long time before the first page ended. sorry if i'm adding flames to a dying fire, but people would buy android devices simply because NI made software for it, which in turn, would prompt google(at some level) to pay more attention to they pro-audio community.

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