1. The forum software has recently been updated. If you have comments or feedback, please let us know HERE! If you have arrived via a Google search, please use the forum search feature to locate specific information.

    Best wishes,
    The NI Team

mpc or maschine, swing?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by soultrane28, Mar 26, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I recently lost use of my beloved mpc 3000 and am thinking about picking up another one or ditching it all together and getting maschine... mostly for the ability to use rex files and sampling.

    when i was using the mpc, i could change the swing on each individual part in a program, so, for instance, i could have the hi-hats swinging at 64%, one snare hitting right on the beat (50%), and snare ghost hits etc. nudged at different swing levels etc etc...

    is it true the only way to do this on maschine is to call up a whole new scene?

    and is it true there are only 8 scenes?

    in other words, i would have to use one scene for hi hats, one scene for kicks, one scene for snares, etc., if i wanted to apply different quantizations to different instruments in a program?

    if so, that is a dealbreaker and i must say it is kind of whack... what drummer worth his salt would play every part of his kit with exactly the same swing?

    please tell me this is not true.

    can u not record parts in at whatever quantization you want within each scene on each pad?
  2. ruffwoods

    ruffwoods Forum Member

    Messages:
    70
    yo im not the most knowdlegdable person about the maschine, but from what i heard, u are right, everything stays at the same swing. correct me if im wrong tho people
  3. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    wow i hope that's not right... that would really suck...

    i don't understand that... you can't set the quantization for an individual instrument within a program?

    that makes about as much sense as a song in logic applying the same quantization to every midi track in the song, and you having to open up another song to put a different feel on a different track...

    why would the designers do this? i was so ready to get the maschine but this will not work the way i want it to.

    i would have to set up a scene for kick 1, a scene for kick 2, a scene for snare 1, a scene for snare 2, a scene for snare fills, a scene for hit hats, etc etc...

    i could fill up 8 scenes very quickly just programming a single kit, which would defeat the whole purpose of getting maschine over my mpc...

    wow please tell me this is not true and i'm missing something?
  4. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    Replace the word scene by group and you're right. It would be nice if you could give each sound its own swing setting.
  5. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    i don't get this at all.

    on the mpc 3k, you pick the quantization you want to apply to the part, record the part, and there it is...

    so, say, you set the swing to 64% (a heavy swing), and you record your open hi hat part... then, you go back in and set the swing to 55%, and you record your closed hi hat... this makes the open hi hat come very close to the closed hat and u can just play around and adjust it till u get it the way you want...

    it is an AMAZING oversight to me that you would not be able to have any nuanced control like this in maschine...

    you can't record different quantization values into your patterns? one quantization value applies for the whole pad bank?

    wow.

    damn.

    that sucks.

    is there no workaround?

    better start saving for another mpc...
  6. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    No, you can record different quantization values, but you can only use these:

    1/1
    1/2
    1/4
    1/8
    1/16
    1/32
    1/64
    1/128
    1/1T
    1/2T
    1/4T
    1/8T
    1/16T
    1/32T
    1/64T
    OFF

    Your problem would be solved if they added the swing setting to this list.
  7. phil909

    phil909 Forum Member

    Messages:
    333
    be prepared for a massive oversight in using rex files too.

    you cannot preview/audition the rex files from maschine's browser.
    you will either have to buy or use a 3rd party piece of software to hear the file before you load it into maschine.

    then, once the rex is imported and you find that your programmed hi hats (for example) would sound better if they followed the rex file timing - there is no option to groove quantise or groove lock your parts together so you either have to quantise to the grid or move every beat a click at a time.... not ideal.

    however, maschine is excellent i think you won't regret buying one.
    it has a few shortcomings but that list grows shorter with each update. i'm hoping the groove functions get added very soon.

    in the meantime - running maschine with ableton live (and using the new midi drag & drop) will allow you to do everything you want to do - the groove control you have in ableton is excellent is is a great example for the NI devs to look at.
  8. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    @phil909;

    thanks for the heads up...

    the way i was doing things via the mpc was soooo slow and it was a struggle to get the mpc to sync with the computer...

    you had to get the whole track happening from a rhythm standpoint, then dump to a daw, and then start adding audio.

    BUT, looking at these limitations gets me wondering if maschine really is the solution... sounds like it might get pretty frustrating...

    and, the whole thing that got me excited about maschine was not having to use it in conjunction with a full blown daw host but to do the tracks all from a pattern based environment with sampling.

    the reason to use an mpc is so you DON'T get caught nudging / grabbing / otherwise mousing around with grooves, but instead, you play them and use the mpc swing algorithms to help when u need it.

    its just so funny / frustrating to me that a software based app like maschine would be so far behind, groove option wise, an os that was designed to use on a 20 yr old processor (mpc 60, 3000, et).

    do not any of the n.i. design team use an mpc to program drums?
  9. AikiGhost

    AikiGhost NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    468
    In the 1.5 update you can apply swing amount by group. Yes there are only 8 groups per project, but its so much faster to load a new project in maschine than with hardware its not really an issue.
  10. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    Soultrane28 has a good point that you don't want your bassdrum in group A, your snare in group B, your hi-hat in group C, etc if you want each sound to have a different swing.
  11. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    @ aiki... that means on a computer about 500x's more powerful (or more) than the processor in an old mpc, the mpc gives you 8x's as many swing options per program than maschine

    (i.e., mpc = 1 swing setting for 64 pads, maschine = 1 swing for 8 groups.)

    is there a workaround?

    say for instance, i program my open hi hats, and then decide i want to nudge them closer to the beat.... can i grab all of them in an editor and slide them over to the desired spot, and in real time?
    ---
    it just seems so wierd to me that they would not allow you, on a groove box, to change the groove quantization every time you record...

    seems like that would be about the FIRST thing that would get implemented, if the idea is to really give the user lots of control over timing.
  12. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    You can record on 1/16 for example, then select a fine grid like 1/128 and nudge the selected notes forward or backward.
  13. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    that sounds pretty good. is it fast to do that?

    it would be an improvement over the mpc if you could record with the quantize off and then go in quickstyle and drag the notes you want to the way you want them...

    can u move then without a grid or do you have to snap the events to a grid?
  14. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
  15. soultrane28

    soultrane28 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    thanks for that.

    so, if i understood what you did, you recorded it in straight, and then nudged the kick through various points on the grid, and you were able to keep the high hat / snare pattern in the same pad bank untouched, right?

    if you can do that, (and if you had more options than, say, 32, 64, 96, and 128, for instance) that would be really sweet.

    is there a way to turn the grid off so you can just drop the notes wherever you want them on the timeline?

    what is the resolution of the sequencer, anyway? i imagine its something like 960 ppqn? it seems like the sequencing engine inside maschine has more in common with a daw than with an mpc...
  16. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    That's right. I used two bassdrums in this case (as I always do btw). The first bassdrum is straight 1/16. The second bassdrum is the same one with the volume slightly lower and that one I nudged from 1/16 to 1/16+1/128 and further.

    The good thing is that if you record without quantize and the note is not exactly on the grid, you can nudge it forward of backward and it stays on the same distance from the grid. But you need the grid setting to nudge and I wonder if the smallest grid setting is small enough. You can also move the note with the mouse, but you can't zoom in close enough to operate on such fine scale.

    I guess NI should add some finer grid settings.

    But musicians don't like workarounds, so it would be much better if they'd add swing per sound.
  17. AikiGhost

    AikiGhost NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    468
    No there is one swing per group (IE: 8 swings per project)

    Certainly you can turn off quantisation and move notes wherever you want with the mouse.
  18. noiserot

    noiserot Forum Member

    Messages:
    1,866
    It's also the reason to use Maschine. You don't have to use the mouse. You can pretty much do everything with the controller, like selecting, nudging. Drag and Drop to DAW really comes in handy too, which you can only dream about on a MPC.
  19. KDilla

    KDilla NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    543
    I nudge all the time with the grid off! I don't know the amount it moves, but it's small enough that sometimes you won't even see the note move. Turn the grid of and shift nudge a bunch of times and you'll see the note creep over...

    Sorry if I misunderstood what was said. But I think that's what you're talking about.
  20. Lotuz

    Lotuz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,474
    I'll try. Maybe the moves were so small I didn't notice.
    ---
    You're right. It seems to divide 1/128 by 3, so 1/384. Is't that 96 PPQ like the MPC3000?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page