2 keyboards/2 manuals in B4?

I have two keyboards that I am trying to set up as upper and lower manual in B4 (ver. 1). I also have a B4D controller correctly installed with the update. I connect one manual from the MIDI OUT into thre B4D, then through a MIDI/USB cable to the computer. The second controller I run straight into a second USB port on the computer. Both are similar Yamaha PSR-type keyboards. They both show up in the MIDI options screen, with different numbers: 0-0, and 0-1. However, both keyboards activate only the upper manual in B4, and I haven't been able to figure out how to switch one of them to operate the lower manual.

Anyone know how to switch the second controller to the lower manual?.

 

Just make sure that the PSR keyboards send MIDI out on separate MIDI channels.. ch#1 for upper, and ch#2 for lower (and ch#3 for the pedal section).

 

Oh, Right, of course! ....thank you -- if you will, I am quite MIDI illiterate and can't seem to find or figure out how to set it to channel 2... can you tell me how to do that...?

Thanks,

Matt

 

Well, you must set that in the Yamaha keyboard (I'm afraid I don't know those keyboards, but it is pretty standard to be able to change the MIDI Out channel.. hopefully you still have the operation manual?).
Also, you don't say what software you are using on the computer... are you using the B4 as Standalone, or using a host sequencer? If the latter, just make sure that it isn't setting the channel back to #1 before getting to he B4! (also, if you are using a host, you can usually set the incoming MIDI to a different channel anyways). Post back if you need more

 

Im usiong B4 standalone.

I have the manual, but I haven't found anything in it about changing midi channels. The PSR-293 and PSR-e303 are both consumer keyboards, and I'm starting to wonder/worry that they don't have that capability..?

 

If not, then you should be able to use a utility program such as MIDI-OX (for PC), or MIDIPipe (Mac) between your keyboard and the B4, to transform the incoming data.

Here's a link for MIDI-OX...
http://www.midiox.com/

and for MIDIPipe, if you are on a Mac..
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/10541

 

stuka: if you have B4 and not B4 II, my understanding is there is no way to assign upper/lower to midi channels in B4 (my friend has B4, I have B4 II and we were discussing this recently). There is a "split" feature in B4 to get upper/lower. I also suggested to my friend a work-around but don't know if this works: it requires 2 instances of B4 running- you "split" one for upper, the other for lower. The update to B4 II apparently is 2 B4's in one, because it includes things like "dual leslie", so it looks to me like they just packed 2 B4's together. I have protools and after some screwing around with aux channels, midi channels, turning on multiple records, how have a completely functioning dual keyboard B4 with all features working properly. Let me know if you need more info.

 

I don't think some of you read what previous people with the same problem have already posted.
I posted about this very issue. The upper board can be split into three layers in setup, very, very simple, READ the B411 manual will explain how to do it. Everything in the manual works, I've tried it all. Though I've been playing synths since they first came out I have not programmed much and the midi stuff is a bit difficult for me at times.
My board is a Roland fantom s88, no prob with the splits and I use a piano sustain pedal most of the time for the swell, or, expression as it's called now. Yes I do have several expression pedals.
nu

 

No offence, but I don't think some people actually read the original question properly . Stuka states that he has two hardware keyboards. Why on earth should he just use the one (and therefore unnecessarily limiting its key range), and split it?

 

Some practical experiences: I have two controllers and the B4 v.1 (anyone agrees that it sounds better than the II?), connected to a laptop running Windows XP. I do not have a B4D, but I "misuse" the controllers on my Evolution controller to do the same thing. SoI think I have more or less tha same setup as Stuka.

My experiences summarized:
======================
Get a MIDI pathcer/mapper like MIDI-OX for PC or MIDI-Pipe(?) for MAC. You will have some frustating hours before you understand how it works, but it can siginificantly ease your music making. Example: I can now control the both the B4 overdrive settings AND the reverb settings (which is another plugin) from the same controller.


Experiences using Standalone:
-----------------------------
I have used B4 standalone before I bought the Chainer ( my VST host), but with help of MIDI-OX I could get full control over the B4. I used a "home keyboard" and can confirm that changing MIDI output channels are often not that easy, if mentioned at all in the manuals. The trouble seemed to be that B4 standalone didnt like taking upper and lower input from two different MIDI "ports" using the same channels, (means to me more-or-less the same as two connectors/cables). It wants them to be on the same "port" but in different channels, at least on my PC. So - changing MIDI channels on the controllers wont always help. Maybe possible, I do not know.

xperiences Using PLUGINS:
-------------------------
When playing live I realize "dual manual" by running two independent instances of the B4 in my VST host (Xlutop Chainer). Works fine except that the "lower" manual is not affected by the "upper" controller, that means I by default have separate leslie speed switching (and separate everything else) for upper and lower manual. I have compensated this problem by some clever MIDI patching in MIDI-OX, but strictkly speaking I have two organs, two leslies etc etc, however it works well enough live. With this VST host it is not possible to use multi-channel plugins(B4 is the only I have come across so far), at least I have notfound any other solution than the above. In studio we have so far used real B3/L122 (or C3 to be entirely correct).



Using Nuendo (may apply for Cubase etc , do not know):
-------------------------------------------------------
A friend of mine managed to control a single B4 track in Nuendo from two controllers, one playing upper manual and another playing bass pedals(!), seemingly without any MIDI-OX or similar patcher . I do not know the details (why should I when I cant afford Nuendo.....)


--gordon

 

No offense taken at all, everyone is entitled to say what ever they like.
I've run three controllers, (keyboards) since I don't have the footpedals and had no probs. Three different channels. Thats too easy though, so I do the split which being redundant is simple too. Most keyboard players I know think they know it all too, most of the time they are wrong and never read any manuals.
You simple give the information asked for which nobody has, so I'll simply do a little more digging in my midi tool chest get the answer I need. I have forgotten more about midi stuff than most know about it.
When you run three boards you are really using three stand alone B411's, the leslies can be controlled completely independantly on the three. Yeah, my Mommy helped with this one. Duh.
nu.

 

I grabbed MIDI-OX, nothing in it makes any sense to me whatsoever....all that stuff is a whole new world to me. If anyone knows of a shortcut or could explain what I have to do to set the lower (hardware) keyboard to channel 2, I sure would appreciate it greatly. And how to set lower octave keys on the hardware boards to emulate the black keys on the real B3, too....though I haven't got 72-key boards yet, I'm looking for one and will want to implement that as soon as I get it...

I checked with Yamahahaha, and they said that you *can't* set the PSR keyboard to channel 2....guess they expect a guy to just be able to afford high-end right out of the blocks...

Gordon, I'm not sure if I quite understand what you are saying about the separate ports, but if I get both (hardware) keyboards running through a USB hub and into a single USB port on the computer, will that satisfy the program's desire for both to be run into the same port...?

Also, you mentioned the reverb plug-in for B4? Is that for the stand-alone? I need that bad, and *right away*, if it is -- can you tell me how/where to get it...?

Also, is there a work-around as far as a swell pedal goes? I have an audition next weekend, and I'd really like to have that capability -- I can't believe it doesn't just come straigt-up with the B4D controller, and that it's a proprietary pedal -- but $165 is pretty steep and there wouldn't be time to get the Boehm one ordered and delivered if I had that much money top blow on a single <expletive deleted> potentiometer....

Thanks,

Matt

 

Hi stuka,

1) I agree that MIDI-OX often makes no sense for mortals. I used a couple frustrating days, and I am a software engineer(nerd?)... I have promised some guidancew, but need a little more time on it. May be useful with an email address so I can send you some files.

2) The reverb plugin I use is a VST plugin, means *not* for B4 standalone. Not the best in the world, buit downloadable for free at www.anwida.com; DX Reverb Light.

3) USB hub will not merge two porst to one. Simply put, each keybord sends on its own port, that you cannot change. In addition it seems the sends on the same channel (1), that you can change. Now, B4 sends all notes it receives on channle 1 to upper, mo matter what port they came from. My idea is to use MIDI-OX to change the CHANNEL on all notes from port 2 from 1 to 2, and let all notes from port 1 thru. Hence, all notes from port 2 will go to lower and all on port 1 to upper.

see you around,
--gordon

 

GHordon,

Thanks for any and all

My email addres is stuka@mindspring.com.

I'm getting a copy of Cakewalk Studio Professional 4 off ebay -- will that VST plugin work with that?

Thanks,

Matt

 

Oops-- I meant to say Cakewalk Sonar 4.0 Producer edition ....

 

Be advised that you won't have any support from Cakewalk or be able to register it unless it's an unopened, unlicensed product. Cakewalk doesn't allow license transfers...

ew

 

Ruh Roh, am I going to run into other problems besides no support from Cakewalk, then....?

 

I am using 2 cme uf series keyboard controllers which is working very nicely. I t is very simple to change midi channels and it has 9 sliders that can control the drawbars with a push of the drawbar button. Plug in a roland footpedal volume controller and a sustain pedal and you are in business.

jim

 

Yamahas don't have that capability - to solve the problem use MIDIOX and remap the channel of one of the keyboards to 2 (Yamaha consumer grade keyboards always tx on channel 1). you'll then have to patch between MIDI-ox and B4 with MIDIYOKE and set B4 to use this as your input instead of your actual midi input. I used this setup for 2 years in live performance and it worked great.

I used this setup

 

I'm also having trouble with setting up two keyboards. I have B4 II software with the BD4 Controler. First off I use a PC w/ M-Audio Delta 1010 PCI interface (1 MIDI in and 1 MIDI out). I use Pro Tools M-Powered and it runs fine with all current hardware no problem. The M-Audio software has no built in controls for MIDI data what so ever.

My keyboard setup is as follows. I have a Casio 76 key controller and a M-Audio Keystation 61 key controller. The Keystation is USB so I run it directly into my computer. The Casio I run the MIDI out into the BD4 MIDI in and take the MIDI out of the BD4 into my M-Audio 1010's MIDI in. I then send the 1010's MIDI out back to the Casio.

I have read this post fully and have tried everything short of the MIDI OX. Not to knock that but I did contact NI and they said that you should be able to config things without it. This has got to be true because when I run the B4 II software in standalone mode everything works fine including the BD4. The Casio sends data as normal into the BD4 and then into my Delta 1010's MIDI in (this activates the upper manuel in the software). I did swich up the Keystation 61 (USB) to send data only on Ch 2. This will make use of the lower manuel just fine. Thats killer!

Where I run into the problem is with my Pro Tools. I record in a home studio and only have one PC work station so running standalone on another system is not an option. When I run the B4 II as an instrument in Pro Tools I can only get the upper manuel to work. Both keyboards play on the upper manuels.

I have tried adjusting the channels on both keyboard controllers to Ch1 for Casio and Ch2 for Keystation on the controllers themselves with no luck although it works fine in standalone). I have tried going into MIDI Setup in Pro Tools. Both controllers are loaded into my list and all outs and ins are recognized. When I set the Channels in the Pro Tools itself (instead of physicaly on the units) I also can only play on the top manual with both keyboards. A few people said that they used Pro Tools with their setups, no problem.

Any help at all?!?!