2 timecode and 2 virtual decks?

This was a question asked on the board in a different section, but I thought I'd bring it over here. I'm really looking to control 2 decks using timecode vinyl and 2 decks using virtual decks (for samples and loops, somehow magically in sync with what's being played using timecode) in TS PRO. I'm guessing I need a MIDI controller along with my DJM-800. First of all, is this possible? And second, what is the best way to accomplish this. Please bear in mind I'm just learning about MIDI but love using the timeecode at the moment. Thanks!

 

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93718

It's not possible and i'm pretty frustrated by it, the way TSP reads the vinyl and then spits out a Master clock signal is very sporadic.

If TSP read the decks GUI readout BPM and synced it via the beatmap, it would be a lot more stable IMO

At the moment it looks like it's trying to do too many thing at once

SINGLE BIGGEST DISSAPOINTMENT OF TSP

 

?
its possible. use it every single night in the club...
get a midicontroller which best fits you.
works awsome.

 

Cedric,
it's not possibile to use sync plus timecode.

For example I use 2 timecode and then I want to put a loop in a deck C o D synced with the deck A o B.

I press Play in the deck that is playing and then I put master on it (deck A), and then I put Sync in deck C (for example).

So now I change the track in the deck B and put a new one and use the scratch control to mix it..What happens?

It happens tha the MASTER will swith to my Deck B and the other deck, A and C lost their sync with me..

this is because when you use the scratch control the signal is not fixed at stable bpm, it moves..

 

I use three timecode decks at once with the last deck controlled with MIDI if necessary, but if I'm lazy I drop it to two timecode and two MIDI-controlled. The sync function is really weak in this regard as it syncs at a momentary and not an average. My Techs are in very good mechanical/electronic condition and output a pretty decent tempo so I usually get within 0.10-0.20 or if I'm VERY lucky 0.05 bpm on sync press, then I take a few seconds to push and pull on the track using the bend buttons on my Trigger Finger, and it's enough to keep the mix going. I've gotten sloppy before and trainwrecked when ignoring tempo differences of .1 long enough while selecting the next acapella....groan.

I've been bouncing the idea of redoing my MIDI mappings to include a fine tempo adjust knob so I can adjust this kind of stuff on the fly. It sucks not to be able to get a clean sync (many have requested, hope NI listens to this one), but I've been beatmatching for years so in the meantime moving a knob or slider back and forth to keep matched up doesn't bother me all that much. I can just imagine the 5 or 10 seconds per mix I'll save when the sync is cleaned up in a new update....mmm....more effects and looping.

**EDIT** Just to add so my workflow makes more sense, I use the sync button as a momentary, just to adjust the tempo if required on the MIDI-controlled decks. I don't leave sync on all the time, and I don't use the master clock for anything other than to output MIDI clock to my Zero4 for use of its onboard effects in addition to Traktor's.

 

@ Telly

Thanks for all that good info. Sadly, from what it sounds like this is NOT possible (at least if trying to stay beatmatched). Very disappointing as this is the main reason I upgraded to PRO with the 4 deck capacity. Also, if TSP doesn't do this sounds like I don't need a MIDI control at all, sigh. So if we can't mix and match timecode with virtual and stay in sync, really what is the point of having virtual decks 3 and 4?

 

If I get this right , your master tempo deck is changing and you don't want that. Have you checked the master assign area in the tempo section, if it's on auto there's your problem, put it to manual and it won't change the master deck for you. You just have to set each deck to master manually while you're mixing.

As far as syncing all the deck together when using two timecode and two midi.. I've dealt with this as well. I use two timecode and one midi for my sets (only held back by the fact I use a 3-channel scratch mixer). Vinyl turntables always have flutter, and no, traktor won't let the sync stay if it is scratch controlled.

What's a possible way to get around this?... Well you have to be able to shift your turntables around to different decks is all really! This is basically how I take care of the circumstance with my setup, as I have to have scratch control of all decks with my two tables... That's just me...

Say you have 4 decks... Turntables are currently controlling A and B, midi for C and D

Deck B is playing, and is set as Master

Load a track on Deck A, play it, hit the Sync button, it will sync CLOSE, but not exactly to the tempo of deck B. This is a momentary sync, not a lasting thing.. AKA it sets the tempo to match Deck B with the speed of the turntable at that precise moment, and only that moment.

From here you can either tune the tempo old-skool style on your tables or in-the-box to match the other deck to your liking while you are cueing, scratching, etc..

If I'm not messing with Deck B, I'll hit a midi button that switches that deck off of scratch control. Effectively switching my turntable to control deck D instead. Now Deck B's tempo is internally controlled by Traktor's setting as the master instead of externally.

When I am finished playing with timecode on Deck A (Done scratching, beatjuggling, etc..) and I'm simply ready to mix it, I hit another midi button that switches this deck to midi control, moves my turntable to deck C, and hits Sync to Master at the same time

Now you just mix it over, since they are internally controlled by traktor they will stay in sync. You can effectively do this with all four decks. Just have to program midi buttons to turn on and off your timecode on the decks when you're not using them.

No, you cannot set traktor to KEEP a track in syn with another while under scratch control. So just turn scratch control off when you're done with it! As long as it's internally controlled and properly beatmapped, it can be sync'd with whatever!

 

A bit of a deal breaker for me also. The other way around it is when you want to copy a loop over from Deck A - Deck C you can setup your midi commands so that it disengages vinyl control for both decks, or possibly for Deck B that way there's a steady clock and everything locks in. But it's not very elegant as your constantly having to tap buttons to go from vinyl to internal control, making sure you don't set a stopped deck for master sync etc.

I've been trying a few different workarounds.

I'm sure there's something that could be programmed differently by NI

 

TRETUNA: mmmm your suggest is a great idea..I will try to set manually the master tempo but I have to try if I find this really workin and easy to do for my use
thanks for now

 

Thanks for keepin' this one alive guys...hopefully we can grab the attention of someone at NI for a possible fix.

 

It's the ighest priority on my list so i'll keep it up as well

 

Cannot vouch for vinyl timecode but i use timecode cds plus my hercules to control all 4 decks and it works more or less exactly how i would like it to. My cdjs control a & b and my midi controller takes care of c & d. i started with the mappings provided by NI for the controller and deleted everything except the transport controls for the decks (i kept play, cue, pitch bend, & sync and assigned them all to c & d.) The top half of the controller i mapped to control the effects units.

mainly i use 2 decks via timecode but alot of times i want to run a loop underneath, add a vocal or just do a 3 deck mash up. i cue up the 3rd or 4th deck, hit sync, play and bam its rite on time and perfectly on beat with a & b (which i either keep in time manually or use a keyboard shortcut to sync if alot is going on.) I'm on cdjs so my tempo really isnt drifting on the scratch-controlled decks. I must say I have been using Traktor this way since t3 and really love it. if ur on cdjs and sync is a big factor for u then all u need is a couple taps on a hotkey set to sync and u pretty much never have to touch those two tracks for the rest of the mix. ps - my tempo mode is set to the default automatic internal mode.

so to answer your original question, yes. 2 timecoded decks & 2 midi decks is def possible and very effective in tsp. while a permanent sync is not possible with scratch control, is still very effective (if ur on cdjs at least, havent tried sync with wax.) As far as midi controllers go, any will do just rock with what is comfortable to you. my only advice would be spend some time with the software and create a custom mapping for your workflow. good luck and have fun!

 

+1 for this and the rest of your posting!

 

O.P.

Are Native Instruments looking into this, as the way it is right now, you can't do it simply (and that's what we want)?

2 Timecoded decks, Either of which can act as the Master

2 Virtual decks, either of which can act as Slaves (oh kinky)

Timecoded decks can be duplicated into virtual decks and keep plying in sync

 

you can do all of this.

the only thing you cant do is sync-lock the tracks running with timecode.
this would be necessary to speed up multiple decks at once, e.g.

anyways, i know NI is looking forward to improve the whole syncing with timecode thing.

 

That's great, update in 1.2?

 

no, nothing new in 1.2 in regards to that.

 

ahh sorry i meant do you think this will be sorted before 1.3 (1.2.2-1.2.9)?

 

if i get to know sth in that direction, i'll let you know!

 

Hmm... Can I get some confirmation on this information, it may very well actually be the final deciding point for me switching completely to CD's! Dont CDJs (800, 1000's more to the point) have flutter on them?

So another way to put the same question is "When a track is played using timecode CD's does it stay EXACTLY at the tempo it started playing at (unless the pitch fader is moved obviously)?