2018 and yet again NO Guitar Rig update

Discussion in 'GUITAR RIG' started by tubeaudiogear, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Lab Rat

    Lab Rat NI Product Owner

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    242
    It does work on Windows 10.
     
  2. Aymara

    Aymara NI Product Owner

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    1,632
    I use BIAS FX on iPad and Mac, also no dongle, but it‘s not a matter of GAS, but much more realistic sound, sorry. And it‘s nice to be able to share setups over the cloud.

    If you love GR5, that‘s great, I hate it ;)
     
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  3. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    28
    Hey, thanks for that.
    Mine is actually RK2 but not sure I want to pursue it as I have other plans.

    What is "realistic sound"?
    For me, the coolest thing about GR is that I can come up with so many "unreal" sounds.
    Pretty sad that some just wanna sound like some old amplifier...what's up with that?
    And why is it that some believe that NI made a lifetime commitment to keep throwing resources at a technology where they're up against competitors, working out of their bedrooms and producing amp Sims for free.

    NI offered me a product, I tested the trial version, liked enough to part with money....end of story.
    This whole industry is full of BS where people pay a premium for "hand wired" amps, believing that they get "better" tone. I never cease to amaze others using sims because I can do things that traditional equipment can't.

    Hey, everyone is raving about Helix... I ain't. The floor unit is £1,000+ and the sim is what, £300?
     
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  4. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    28
    A bit more about the BS;

    I just got done watching the Premier Guitar Rig Rundown (YouTube) for The Edge.
    Over an hour of the same old, same old.
    Uses 23 guitars for a set of 26 songs, different guitar "tones", forever changing capacitors to affect the same, all the usual vintage hype....
    To show the hardware, the camera couldn't avoid showing the FOUR Fractal FX units and the rack-mount POD....not a single word mentioned about them but plenty about some ancient AC30s etc.

    Gotta perpetuate the religious myths because that keeps the gullible parting with their money....LOL.
     
  5. Aymara

    Aymara NI Product Owner

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    1,632
    Something, that sounds like a real existing hardware amp.

    The BIAS stuff can do that too, which is fine, if you just work on studio projects, but most guitarists just want to simplify recording and sound like on stage, where they still use hardware.

    But, ok, it‘s all a matter of individual needs and taste. As I said, if you like GR, that‘s fine.
     
  6. telecode101

    telecode101 NI Product Owner

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    331
    GR5 is a fine product. I use it all the time but it does not sound like a real amp. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things for me because I don't make satriani/vai guitar shredder music (not that I could pull that off anyways!) -- the guitars in my stuff are usually pretty buried in the mix behind a lot of synths and rhythms and are used mostly for texture and feel.

    I also use BIAS on a iPad. BIAS is actually a better sounding amp sim for cleaner tones.

    Its also true, you can get very strange sounding sounds out of GR which make it a unique product in that space. But neither of those products sound like a real high quality tube amp to my ears.

    I heard the diffusion audio stuff at a music fest not too long ago. The sounds of those things blow BIAS on a iPAD and GR out of the water. They are also more money in that they are products dedicated soley towards guitar. If I were making guitar shredder music, i would probably look at those kinds of things.

    https://www.diffusion-audio.com/xsonic-xtone.html

    https://www.diffusion-audio.com/darkglass-electronics/
     
  7. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    I was looking at the Vox MV50 range, the other day and was musing whether they would help those who are not totally satisfied with their sims. The MV50s are tiny "Nutube" amps...maybe one for each channel, if you want stereo?
    Still makes for a very compact rig.
     
  8. ZeroEmpire

    ZeroEmpire NI Product Owner

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    25
    Crazylynton,

    You make some great points. One day people may be looking back with fondness on these “outdated” amps sims calling it vintage amp sim sounds.

    I’ve been using BiasFX for awhile and just recently upgraded to the new Bias FX 2. I like it I like it a lot i. Can get what I think are some really good tones out it,

    Last night after jamming on Bias FX2 for a couple hours trying out different cabs and IR’s I thought I would fire up GR5 and try a few IR”s with it.

    You know what? It sounded pretty damn good. Different from Bias FX yes but still good.

    I do hope they develop a GR 6 though. NI seems like a pretty large company with a lot of resources to work with. I think they could catchup to anyone in the market if they choose to do so.
     
  9. telecode101

    telecode101 NI Product Owner

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    331
    Oohh.. I dont know about that. Amp sims are't the same as tube electronics or guitar wood. But what I do know.

    The GR5 product does sound very cool and is still useful. Especially if you are using it to make weird electronic music. But I feel it will go the way of the Komplete Kore dodo bird. A product that once was at the forefront of the company's list but is now just a side note. The guitar amp and effects sim market has become very crowded with other vendors that have made leaps and bounds while NI have focused on Traktor and Komplete.

    Just my guess.
     
  10. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    Self employed since 1987 and know only too well what happens when you take on the wrong project. Client thinks you're the greatest thing ever....but you just lost your a$$.

    Scott Grove seems to have quite a following on YT. Clearly, he's not afraid of spending on gear. Claims his one-man gigs make him $1,000/night and he uses an old Johnson J-Station.
    This was my first modeller and I liked it so much that I upgraded to the DT GNX4 and now I own SEVEN of these amazing units.
    I think all sims are great and I believe that the likes of Hendrix would've been all over this stuff.
     
  11. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    14,846
    Yep. Lotsa burning gear! :D
     
  12. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    LOL

    Seriously though, guitar + amp and I soon get bored but guitar + modeller (or is it modeler) and I can be messing with the same 3 notes for hours. To me, it's an extension of the guitar and the more effort you put in to these things, the more you get out. If you simply wanna sound like some 1970s guitarist, just go and buy some old box with tubes in it and be done with it.
     
  13. BadMucker111

    BadMucker111 New Member

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    10
    Guys, if you are like me and are just planning to use the effects of software such as GR5 or Positive Grid Bias(In a live situation that is ), try this little test to put things into perspective.

    1- Close Everything you got open, I mean everything, including this window.
    2- Open Positive Grid Bias FX or FX2.
    3- Record how long it takes to open up and give you sound.

    Now
    1- Shut everything down again but this time Open GR5.
    2 - Record how long it takes to open up.

    Am I the only person that noticed this or am I doing something wrong.
    Bias FX2 just came, I mean JUST CAME OUT, and the thing takes about 30 seconds or longer to open.
    Guitar Rig literally opens in under 5 seconds and ready to rock. What the???
    The effects sound really good actually...
     
  14. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    28
    Whoa, I don't have BIAS but looking at the spec's, it's clearly heavy duty which probably explains why it's reported to be more realistic than GR5.
    They stipulate a minimum of Core i5 whereas I have GR5 running on an Atom-based W10 tablet and it hardly breaks a sweat.

    For all the Fractal FX hype, I once looked up the performance of the two TigerSHARC DSPs and in terms of GFLOPs (billions of floating-point operations/sec), the i5 had at least double the performance of the two TigerSHARCs combined.
     
  15. Aymara

    Aymara NI Product Owner

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    1,632
    You are astonished, that a brand new software is not ideally optimized for performance on first release? And you are astonished, that new software requires more CPU power and RAM, than many years old software.

    Common where have you been the last few years?

    No offence intended, but nowadays it has become normal, that early adopters (consumers) are misused as Beta testers. We can be happy, when it‘s not buggy as hell. And NI is no exception.
     
  16. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    14,846
    BIAS is not really coded very well. Are they still using a web browser to render their GUI? What a moronic thing to do in a plugin...

    Yes, but SHARCs don't have the baggage of calculating stuff regarding Windows/macOS and a bunch of other stuff general purpose computers have to do. ;) They do one thing and one thing only, whereas an i5 does a zillion other things on the side...
     
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  17. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    28
    I have to, respectfully, disagree.
    With WiFi and anti-virus disabled, how much difference do you see between the CPU usage reported by GR and Task Manager?
    Windows is event-driven which means that it doesn't need to be paying attention to things that are idle.
    Furthermore, I can't think of a single reason to use floating point math on a GUI. Even if I had graphical VU meters, I wouldn't bother calculating the angle of the "needle", I'd use a LUT (look up table) and let the GPU handle the task of drawing the line.
    OTOH, the Fractal units require that their TigerSHARCs also handle the display and user input.
     
  18. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    14,846
    There's a bunch of things that OS still does even if stuff is marked as idle in task manager, that DSPs don't need to do.
     
  19. Crazylynton

    Crazylynton NI Product Owner

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    28
    Such as?

    I'm a developer of industrial control systems and many years ago, before the big-name guys did it, made Windows real-time to directly control CNC machinery. Originally W98. Quite familiar with that OS.
     
  20. BadMucker111

    BadMucker111 New Member

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    10
    I guess Aymara is right in the sense that I should've look at the specs b4 complaining:
    "
    Windows
    • Windows 7 (SP1) , Windows 8 or Windows 10
    • Format: Standalone and plugin: Audio Units, VST, RTAS, AAX Native
    • 4GB of RAM minimal, 8GB or more recommended
    • 1.5GHz Dual core processor minimal, 2.0GHz Dual core or more recommended
    • 250MB free disk space for per version (32 or 64 bits)
    • Internet connection is required to activate license and access Tone Cloud, Positive Grid Desktop products don’t support offline activation at this moment. It can run under offline mode after activation and disable Tone Cloud."
    I'm running
    • Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2310M CPU @ 2.10GHz 2.10 GHz
    • Installed RAM: 4.00GB
    • Windows 10 64-bit

    At least in respects to Bias FX (Not FX2) it would appear that I am in the minimum range of the system req's as mentioned on Positive Grid site. I guess that's why I'll get minimum load times? Bias FX2 does sound pretty spot on tho. So I can't complain about everything. I'll have to try this thing on a system that is really more recent. (My notebook is gettin' ollllld...lol!)

    But to be honest, If I had to choose between going on stage with either Guitar Rig or Bias for just my FX (I always prefer an external tube amp, I'm just that way, don't hate!) I'd probably choose GR5. Its just wayyy more stable. I bought this thing when it came out and its never crashed a single time or showed any kind of audible latency. So to me even though its old, it runs well and sounds decent. I mean its not a real individual pedal, but on recordings or in a live situation with a band, I don't think most people can really tell what gear is being used because of the totality of sound going on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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