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3.3 Update Coming Soon?

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by Jesse_Plan, May 21, 2007.

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  1. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,067
    James they did prioritize development! Thomas laid it out and I'll do so here again.

    Following on from the last scratch update there was a period where the code bases for the 3 product lines were being prepared for, and then merged to create a common code tree to develop from going forward. That process, and outside information showed some cases where there were thread syncronization issues in the code that had to be addressed. These were very low level issues in code that could if done wrong, create very significant problems, and if done right could take care of some very odd unexplained performance and reliability issues. Doing those fixes and testing in the T3 branch presented real problems in that the issues would be much harder to see and separate due to the increased code complexity that T3 overlays. It was decided that the safest approach to testing these and other fixes was to do the testing in the Scratch branch of the code and produce a needed update for Scratch, where the fixes could be tested in isolation from other more complex code, possibly obscuring the results of these fixes. Once properly tested by a newly expanded Scratch beta group (and yes there are still a few spots open for additional scratch beta testers, let me know if want in) the update will be released to the wider scratch community and the tested code rolled into main Traktor branch in a much more controlled and stable fashion.

    Ultimately the prioritization you assert that wasn't done is exactly what was done. The problem is it negatively affects T3's delivery.

    Yes its very unfortunate that this has come to be, but you and others would be screaming blue bloody murder that problem code was integrated and problems that could have been more readily seen in a simpler code base, went undiscovered.
    The prioritization that was lowers risks to T3, produces needed fixes to Scratch, but its downside is that T3 deliverables are delayed.

    What this comes down to is the classic argument of quality vs on-time delivery. Sure its desirable to have both, but in the event you cannot which is most important? Depending on your perspective that may be different. All I can tell you is from a pure test perspective, containing risk is the way to go. It makes focused testing easier and produces better results. However it also gives those who want it now at any cost the opportunity to voice their opinion.

    The follow-on from that if it does go badly is that they get to scream about how the product sucks and how it should have been properly tested in the first place and that the rush to satisfy user demand in the first place was really not so important after all.

    Like you I really want to see the T3 update and I have the benefit of knowing some of what is coming and the background to it, making it easier to understand and accept what is happening. I've done what I can to explain this here hopefully making somewhat more palatable for you as well. It will sit OK with some and not OK with others, its not ideal for T3 users but it is this way for good reason. Whether you agree with that position is another matter entirely.

    As testers we'll do our level best to test as thoroughly as possible as quickly as possible, making T3 integration simpler, faster and less problematic. Ultimately that will be to your benefit however thats not going to be evident right now.

    Phil
     
  2. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

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    2,335
    So this means that the NMX problems are all fixed, now, right? Cuz I know that's a priority. :)
     
  3. JamesUssher

    JamesUssher Forum Member

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    64
    Dear Phil

    Thanks for taking the time to respond so carefully..I understand the reasons. However, I am still reeling at the jump from two to a twelve week lead time.

    James
     
  4. AudioRapture

    AudioRapture NI Product Owner

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    2,892
    In retrospect (hindsight is always 20/20) it might have been a better course of action to *only* add TS functionality to T3 as an interim release. (in the same way FS functionality was *removed*)
    Unfortunately, at this point, that is not possible anymore, I think, since development advanced beyond the point of no return.
    Even if NI had done it we would still get complaints because some of the improvements from TS would not have been in T3, yet.

    Software development simply isn't manufacturing.
     
  5. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,067
    Bringing code branches together is not a matter of bolting on the new stuff. As any of the various software engineers here who have been involved with merging half a million lines of code will tell you it takes time and much care. When you discover low level problems, testing the fixes on simple platforms is always easier and preferable.

    Phil
     
  6. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,067

    NOT!
    Should have been IMO, but wasn't. Its a feature far TOO many people use and have problems with, but all its gotten are bandaids that only partially corrects some of the many problems it has.

    Phil
     
  7. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    I appreciate you letting me know that, seriously. It'll save me frustration from any expectations I might have had.
     
  8. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,067
    Honestly mate I don't know what the plans are to fix it. I do know you should not expect any fixes in the Scratch update though. Beyond that into Traktor 3.3 time is pure speculation on my part so I won't. All I can tell you, you already know and are frustrated by. Based on the behavior though you have to wonder whether a redesign of the feature internally is not a good idea, once again tho, speculation...

    Phil
     
  9. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

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    2,335
    Yah, I understand. I'm trying to be a loyal customer & all like dat, but the way to do it so far is to stay in the trenches with 2.5.3, which is still my buddy pal. The alternative is to spend a Whole Lotta Dough on a new laptop & desktop, and while that's certainly on the agenda, I can't justify doing it just so Traktor 3 will work as it's supposed to work anyhow. I'm sure I can't expect anything that might be workable till around the end of the year. Whee.
     
  10. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,067
    For you 2.5.3 can still do things for you that Traktor 3 cannot and does not do. That alone says you sit tight with what you have until such time as the features you need work on Traktor 3. Seems like a total no-brainer to me. Perhaps we need to hit Friedemann up with the case that you have one of the most popular mix podcasts and downloaded DJ on the planet still using Traktor 2.5.3 because Traktor 2.6 and Traktor 3 Native mix recorder is broken and needs to be fixed. ;)

    Phil
     
  11. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    It sounds a lot better coming from someone else. :) I would happily put an endorsement for T3 on my website (and forthcoming dedicated Podrunner site), but right now I can't do that.

    I really like 2.5.3 a lot. It's stable and I know it inside-out. But I'm also a restless soul who doesn't like complacency; I get bored and start to push. So my familiarity with 2.5.3 has started to breed a desire to expand.

    After watching Rufus make T3 his b1tch in a live setting, I realized I was gonna get left behind -- I'm fine with spinning 4 decks, I like the fx (though not necessarily their implementation), I love the sound of the Xone emulation, and the 4-band EQ and beat-jump assignments were changing the way I mixed.

    The NMX uselessness I've harped on endlessly, of course. It *is* what puts the "studio" in Traktor Studio, and a lot of people have problems with it. I have a replicatable bug when ticking Synchro Start in preferences that causes a BSOD on my laptop AND on my Shuttle XPC. Support's lame answer was that Traktor doesn't like M-Audio cards. Sorry, but if (a) your music app isn't compatible with the most popular pro-level audio cards on the planet, the problem is yours and not M-Audio's, and (b) then why do so many people use the same FireWire 410 with no problem. Then they said T3 doesn't like SiS chips. I repeat the above two answers.

    I also got weird behavior and occasional audio dropouts -- not enough to make me stop using the app, but enough to make me nervous as hell playing out with it. I really want to use it. I really want to record with it (I just listened to the only Podrunner mixed with T3 [using T3's audio recorder and not the NMX] and thought it sounded great]. I really want to play out with it and get to know my amazing Bitstream controller better for it. I really want to recommend it. At present I can't do any of these things.

    I get a lot of emails asking what app I use, and I say I use T2.5.3 but not T3 because of the above issues. So yah, it definitely has some small influence.
     
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