A little letter to NI

An open letter to Native Instruments.

A little back story first. Using Traktor since 2.5, went through all the growing pains of the initial release of Traktor3, paired it with the nightmare of a BCD2000, a nightmare but a good budget way to begin experimenting with controllers and MIDI (had to do something as 4 decks with a mouse and keyboard just wasn't cutting it) spent no end of time lurking, reading and re-reading on the forum, thanks for all your help guys even if I didn't contribute myself, I learnt a lot. Eventually got to version 3.3 and settled there, 3.4 was not for me, the screwing up of the delay effect was the deal breaker, (if you manage to keep reading I am sure you will see a recurring theme emerge). Accumulated an expanding collection of various controllers and am now bashing it out on an A&H Xone 4D (I love it, but it's still not perfect).

Anyway,

I shall be covering a wide range of issues and will be somewhat critical, your not going to like it but it has to be said.

What on earth are you doing?

Who or what is steering this ship? What is the vision?

The whole digital DJ space is up for grabs, and there are only 2 real contenders to be taken seriously, Traktor and Serato. All the other DJ programs (VDJ, Mixmeister, Torx, et al) are niche and will never have the acceptance or respect of these two.

Ableton is in another category entirely and just for now I will put them to the side as I shall be coming back to them a little later.

All it will take is one company to have the vision, structure and determination to step up and give us the users what we want and need. Yes we want it all and yes we want it now. Someone will, and then it's game over for the rest.

So where to start.

Purchased and installed TPro, 1 hour later that beta version (because thats what it was) was uninstalled.

Traktor Pro - what an absolute unmitigated disaster. May have sold a lot of copies (on the promise of new and improved) and won awards (please, like that means anything) but let's face it, to release a version as Pro and to have a lot of the new functions not working properly but also to have so many things broken that worked fine before is unbelievable and inexcusable in my opinion. It should have been called Traktor 4 and fixed most of the glaring issues and problems with Traktor 3 whilst maybe adding a few new ideas. I'm all for a Pro version thats a complete rewrite, that addresses all issues and starts afresh. But to cobble together a hash job hanging a few bells and whistles onto what in reality is the core of Traktor 3 and call it Pro is not even funny. Is there nobody working there who has the balls to say "Hold on, sorry, this just isn't Pro, think of the damage this is going to do to the perception of Traktor as a serious DJ application". Let me guess, the marketing and advertising departments got they're way. What a way to run a business. As Bill Hicks used to say "if you work in marketing do us all a favour and kill yourself".

To quote from Traktor on the Record #1:

White Tiger wrote:
Traktor has been completely re-written several times. Do you expect this trend to continue in the future?

Friedemann @ NI wrote:
Traktor has never been completely rewritten all at once, though it’s part of good product maintenance to rewrite and optimize crucial parts of the application every once in a while.
In terms of the overall concept, the first major redesign was the move from Traktor 2.6 to Traktor 3, which was necessary due to the extension of four decks and the introduction of the effects section. Traktor Pro was the second redesign, where we ultimately straightened out and streamlined the concept and closed contradictions and gaps that we identified in Traktor 3 based on the systematic user feedback.

We are now very confident in the architecture and the interface concept of Traktor so we don’t foresee any major redesigns anytime soon. But nobody can really say today which new technologies and creative concepts will come up within the next years, and which kinds of design changes they might stimulate to keep Traktor on the cutting edge.

One thing is for sure, because we have now finally reached a professional user base with Traktor, we will put a much higher focus on backward compatibility in all future updates.
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I'm sorry but what was that all about, from the second paragraph onwards it just descends into farce, "confident in the architecture and the interface concept so don't foresee any major redesigns" (call it what you like but with all the problems, v1.03 is a major redesign, the reinstatement of Master/Slave being a perfect example). Then there is "a higher focus on backward compatibility" (exsqueeze me, thats gobbledygook of the highest order). Backward compatibility ?

While I think that the recent invention of "Traktor on the Record" is a laudable attempt to give the users some feedback and a look into the mind of NI, I do have to say that most of what I read in reply leaves me with almost complete indifference. The marketing speak and insistence that everything in the future will be peachy attitude leaves me with a little bit of sick in my mouth.


An important announcement at NAMM for DJ's, what do we get? A 4 channel soundcard, are you serious, ooh how exciting. I nearly put my fist through my screen when I read about that. You already sell 2 soundcards, AK1 and A8DJ, why another? So the kids have a cheaper option? Once again, no vision no understanding, the world is full of external soundcards. We are still waiting for v1.03 and what does NI do? It makes a bloody skateboarding video. How mental is that.

This leads me onto the question that I just cannot fathom, Where is the controller? Just in case you missed it I will ask again.

Where is the controller? This question has been raised in the forums so many times. You must know it makes sense Rodders.

This time next year we'll be millionaires.

To quote from Traktor on the Record #2:

DjCyberMix_Tf wrote:
Two years ago there was any rumors about a controller made from Native Instruments, maybe real rumors, maybe not. Now Native Instruments about dj hardware is only focussed on Audio8 DJ or or you have some idea about a dedicated midi (or not midi....) controller for Traktor Pro?

Tobias G @ NI wrote:
Of course we have had ideas for possible DJ controllers from the first version of Traktor on! But there are many reasons why companies have to play their cards close to their chest when it comes to possible product plans, so I am afraid I have to leave your question pretty much open.
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How can you build a controller when Traktor has been constantly changing from one version to the next, the software needs to be planned and stable before you can decide what type of controller and controls you need.

It's so blindingly obvious but you just don't get it do you? I understand about companies not giving too much away but I'm afraid it's probably already too late, the cat is well and truly out of the bag, if NI are going to make a move they better hurry.

Integration and feedback between software and hardware is absolutely crucial as the software becomes more expansive and more complex. The blurring of lines between production/performance and DJ'ing are now virtually indistinguishable. I think Maschine could be a step in the right direction, but just imagine an extended version that also integrates the controls that a DJ needs.

Now, as I mentioned a whole lot earlier it's time to come back to Ableton, It seems to me to be the only company with the aforementioned vision and structure, Ableton 8, Serato partnership (ok it's not known exactly what that entails but you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to enable DJ's to control, modify and manipulate clips with timecode, and to top it all off, Akai APC40 controller (no doubt with an even more extended controller already in the pipeline to tie up with the Serato part) and from what I
gather this controller was all done and dusted within a 3 or 4 month timescale.

Compare this to the 3 or 4 months that Traktor Pro users have already been waiting for a properly working version of just software. If your reading this NI you should be getting real nervous. In the vernacular I think the term is "shitting a brick".

Sure it all sounds negative, but I can't tell you how optimistic I am that eventually somebody is going to deliver the goods.

Won't be long now.

 

I've been gigging on Tpro since 1.0.2; it's been absolutely fine.

Exactly how is the current version an unmitigated disaster?

 

ranting about native instruments with such a long post after trying out tpro just for one hour is ignorant like hell.

you must be mr. superman dj/software expert that you think you know enough about a new software which changed a lot of paradigm in comparing to the previous version after playing around with it for one hour. but hey who knows maybe you are...

 

There is nothing new here.

Mr Winkle all the points that you have made have already been discussed ad nauseam in other threads.
Every point has been thrashed out with the arguments both in agreement and disagreement discussed at length.

You have made NO new points and have added ZERO to the concern.

Noting your join date and your post count i wonder if you have bothered, at all , to read this forum over the past 4 months. If you had you probably wouldnt have made that post.
You have just compiled a post from other posts. Regurgitated the same tired complaints.


Its like telling someone "you have a broken arm" when they are clearly wearing a plaster and a sling and it has been signed by all their friends. Your a bit late with the information.

Whats next , are you going to tell us next, that you have invented the wheel.


Sorry dude, your opinion is as valid as anyones but your a bit late to the party.

The drinks are on the side, the door is over here > Your choice.

 

just for the record, i have been gigin out on TPro since day 1, got it the same morning as it was released, has worked flawless since then, so i guess your long post is, well not rly correct,

u need a controller?

get an Otus, has all u ever need, and has an exelent soundcard as well(mods, sry for the shameless pug of the Otus here, but it pwns everything else out of the water imo )

 

No problem dude, if you got it rocking shout it from the roof tops bro. Your all good!

 

Can I have an Otus? Please? Anyone? Karlos? chilly?

 

Yes here is your Otus (Owl species latin)


Twit-Twoo

 

Actually I'd rather have that than an Eks Otus....

How do I plug it into my laptop though?

 

Its WiFi. or WiFly mwah mwah.

 

For the record, I really don't have a problem with someone posting a letter like this. I'd rather read this than most idiots on here who say "This suxx0rzz. Buy Searto!"

My only issue is that this guy has 3 posts total...and I don't know what to make of it. My mindset is that the more posts you have, the more time you spend exposed to the forums and the issues that are written about here. You contribute to the Traktor community...no matter in what aspect...jokingly, trolling, or utter annoyancey (like boysteve).

I view someone with a low post count as just a complainer and I disregard anything that is said. Normally.

This guy spent some time and really went into detail though...so jury's out.

TeLLy, if by 'Otus' you mean a strap-on dildo, then by all means, you can have Karlos'. I can't part with mine...yet.

 

This right here shows the good man still has some faith. Granted, I myself feel the post was a touch hasty but I think Mr Winkle is on the right side of the fence...and from the updates coming on the next version, I myself am very hopeful.
---
Oh and chilly, all good. I wasn't one for hot pink anyway. At least Karlos's is neon green...my favourite!

 

People are probably disappointed because they thought PRO was going to be like 3(.4) with more features and more streamlined.

PRO is barely halfway there - but I'm still using it and it's VERY stable.

Haters, disappointed - a difference there I believe

 

I would agree with that entirely. Its not the fact that it wasnt another "this sux" post, its the fact that it was just a repost of all that we have read over and over again cobbled together in one post.

I would not join a forum and then just blast the product. Id read about the issues that affect me and join in.

Lets not forget one of the most important guidelines of any Forum is dont start a thread when there are already threads covering the issue/issues.

Im glad he has faith and hope he gets on board with the forum and helps out it just seems like a strange way of doing that. More of a "look at me and my controversial opinion" because its not controversial its all been heard before.

 

w/ chilly -- I like it when just sort of let the horses run crazey... hahahahaha

... this was my first post. I dropped it right in the middle of a firefight over some wack issue:

iOVERVIEW!


"I haven't read alot of forums but from what I have gathered here I can tell that this software and its users is a pretty HOT combination. I am really happy that I bought Traktor 3 two years ago. Ive been playing with it ever since and the abilities that it has given me with my digital media have surpassed all my wildest ideas i had about mixing samples when I was working with records, DAW, and tape ten years ago.

When I heard de9 closer to the Edit I phreaked out ...literally. I put the Cd on at a party i was playing and just did spoken word over the top of the beats. I was pretty excited about this technologey and i think I even lost my voice that night from screaming about it, oh and i also blew up a set of monitors. Anyway. My point is that there is alot of technologey that will still be developed for this paradigm. Im really glad that there is a group of people who are so fired up about things and trying to get it right and even going for each others throats in the process. This makes me really happy. And it gives me alot of hope that the ideas I have about this technologey and its possabilities will someday be realized. If you have the time -- look at what DIGI-DEsign was doing back in the eighties. And what has come about from that head of steam. You are all apart of it and your ideas and fire can and will create great things in the future.

This is so Sweeeeeet.. Keep the Energy up everyone. You are pusching the loca-motive out ahead."

I was astounded by the level of debate over the issues of this software. And uptill now there has been no lack of continuing from then and similar debates and ideas that surface constantly from new members.


flashback:
sordid... times -- that de-9 cd and the records that came out with it was like a sexy visit from the female version of the kool-aid candy man. (this notative gender changing of the metaphorical pleasure gaurd is absolutely necessary) ie: It was very inspiring.

reality check:
Unfortunately, I don't know that things have advanced in any extreme degree since back then.


I have submitted a question concerning NI's manifesto of its development of the creative aspects of this software < for the next on the record session. I really don't expect the answer. But I would really like a surprise .. like a response to an email inviting me on to develop my ideas for dj sequencing. < a very relevant avenue at this point.

at one point I think I metaphorically described the constituants of this forum as a group of gnarly scrap-eatin lab rats who are so intimidatiing and bloated with thier psychological convolutions involving this software that the NI food - pellet distributers might be afraid to show thier faces for fear of psychic retaliation. Teach the rats to think, .. the rats take over. plain and simple. Now.. how do we get out of this cage.

 

But why would you want to leave....it's bliss......*saunters over to water bottle for a quick drink before hitting the exercise wheel*

 

TP's running fine on my end, i have my own things i miss or like to change, but indeed, these are minor.

one thing that is noticeable compared to T3 is that it's been superstable from day #1. i switched to T3 with version 3.1, IIRC, but i'm using TP live since 1.0.1 - what a difference.

besides that, ...

nah, waist of time. long story short:
i love TP.

 

Word to the Mother (quite literally )

 

As the topic title says:
An open letter to NI


According to Participation Inequality,
Mr Winkler is part of the 90% of members who lurk.
9% are intermittent contributors,
and only 1% account for most contributions.
(leave quality out of it for now)

The moderator`s first rude comment was not professional and does not encourage the other 90% of lurkers to post or start a new topic.
Very counter productive for the community and ultimately brushes off on NI`s image.


I appreciate Mr Winkle`s effort at summarizing the status quo from his lurking point of view in one single post.
He sure saved me some time filtering the relevant essence out of the posts.
Thank you!

It is not very easy to find detailed, compressed information here.
Everything is scattered around and diluted with senseless post count increasing posts generated by 1% of the members.

What was the latest one I read about --- what to use to clean vinyl?

Ajax
or
Children`s Tears
:lol:

*applause*

 

Point out the 'rude' part of my comment and i will retract it.
My comment was simply my opinion on the post. Disagreement is not being rude.
I clearly stated that his opinion was as valid as anyones.

Lurker or not if you post on a forum you alone are responsible for your words. The forum has reached a tipping point where most users/lurkers are fully aware of the shortcomings of Pro and we are all waiting for the next update. Anyone joining this forum is under an obligation, within the usual Netiquette to read the issues being discussed. The original post sounded, to me that he had cherry picked some of the already discussed issues and simply repeated them for no clear purpose.

Repeating already discussed points is counter productive to the forum.
There is actually very little content in the post that informs the other users about the product.
Complaining about NAMM ? When did NI make a promise that they would reveal something that HE would be interested in.
Complaining about the often mentioned NI DJ Controller? Why , what purpose does this serve.

No-one who writes a post that is critical of NI or the product is ever censored (of course) but if there is little point to the post its reasonable to point it out. Thats all i did.

Lancellot,
This is yet another one of your attempts to undermine me and another example of you jumping in when i post something you disagree with. I am very familiar with how you operate. Its not a new occurance. I thought we were over all that.


Why are you quoting people from other threads? Cross Posting. To cause a little rumpus thats why.
You have repeatedly made comments before about other users posts that are made in jest or are simply light hearted. Would you rather have the forum devoid of all humour?

Can i just say that we are aware of how you feel about various members. They know who they are, they read your little jibes often enough.
You clearly dont like how this forum works.

This forum is a fun place as well as an informative place. I have personally gone out of my way to welcome new users and in fact that was in my introduction as a new moderator so i am well aware of my responsibilities towards new members but this doesnt mean that i cant call people when i think they are mistaken about the product.

Members continue to receive great advice from all the other members and me as a Moderator but i guess you dont read those posts.