A message from Native Instruments

In the morning I got the same message like descripted in the link. Now the update was finishing.

 

I know I'm late to the party but as they say: better late than never

First of all I'd like to share that it amuses me to see the same kind of reactions within different communities. Quite some time ago I've been quite active on the Ableton forum and recently I've begun to appreciate the non-official Reason community a lot more and guess what? When it comes to the overall reactions, the concerns, the negative and positive replies there really isn't all that much difference.

Each to their own but I cannot help but think that some people seem to be under the impression that if N.I. would go "Titanic" then they're doomed. Wake up call: you're not. It's not as if all your stuff will magically stop working over night after which you can no longer do any production. And I say this because I can back it up: just this evening I de-installed the Kore player which I still used to enjoy the North India pack which included the Sitar. Never heard of it? Or maybe you're now wondering if I'm not mistakenly addressing the India soundpack for Kontakt (I'm linking it because this is seriously good stuff!)? Trust me, I'm not. So how long is it since N.I. discontinued Kore? Not to mention that 'North India' cannot be purchased nor found anymore (and since I'm on the subject: what about 'Deep Freq'?).

Who am I? I'm simply a synth enthusiast who has taken much pride into owning a boxed version of Komplete Elements 7 long before it got nerfed and boy did I have fun with it Most Live users seem to go 'Komplete' but I went 'Reason' and backed that up with some specific N.I. instruments and effects in combination with 'Elements'. This weekend I decided that I wanted to take my production to the "next level" and because I'm seriously getting hooked on working with Push (= the official Ableton Live midi controller) I decided that I should 'Komplete' my setup and thus I got myself Komplete 12. Which led me to re-discover this forum

 

Apologies for a double post, but...

He already answered that, though indirectly. Disclaimer: the only reason I wanted to share is because the Propellerheads, errr: Reason Studios also have a subscription model for their "Reason expansions" (the so called "Rack extensions"; 3rd party instruments and effects which you can purchase using their website). So being a vivid Reason user I have some experience in the field.

Of course I don't know what N.I. is going to do, I'm merely a fellow user, but I'm convinced that they won't go "subscription only". For the simple reason that this would seriously cut into their revenue. See... If you have paypal account then that doesn't automatically imply that you can also pick up subscriptions. I solely use my Paypal as an online "piggy bank" without any connection to a bank account or credit card. As a result I cannot participate in online subscriptions if the seller is only using Paypal. And I know I'm not alone here....

Then there's another aspect to consider: revenue. In the end N.I. is a company and what's most important for a company? Revenue and income, basically profit. Although there's money to be made from subscription models there's more money to be make from direct sales. Especially if you don't have to bother with shipment issues and all that. Example... One of my all-time favorite N.I. instruments is Absynth 5. I love this synth and have been using it for so many years now... and I still can't stop talking about it My point being: It's E 149,- ergo a subscription will be a lot less. Let's say for the same of argument it'll be E 5,- per week. Meaning that you can also cancel this subscription on a per-week basis.

So what would be more beneficial? E 15,- or E 149,- ? I think I know what

How I came up with that E 5 / week you wonder? Didn't Paul state that their intent was to make things more accessible from a financial perspective?

Finally... N.I. has a legacy to consider. Just ask yourself this: if you're an owner of Komplete, would you upgrade if you could only do this on a subscription basis? I know I wouldn't! And I am convinced that there are plenty more who feel the same way.

If there's one company I know who seems hellbent on subscriptions it's Microsoft. I mean.. Office 365 anyone? Or... do you dislike the ads in your Patience ("Microsoft Solitaire") game? No problem: there's a subscription for that. Want to have more online ('cloud') storage space in OneDrive? There's a subscription for that... But despite all those subscription models they're still selling their flagship ("Microsoft Office") as well.

Now, sure, I'm well aware that I'm basing my conclusion on aspects that are not directly related to N.I, true. And as a customer I also have no idea what their business strategy is going to be, also true. But my overall experiences within the field of IT as a whole as well as with some other companies tells me that we have no reason to worry here.

I'm convinced that they won't stop selling their products as they always have. As mentioned earlier: I believe that could plain out destroy their revenue.

 

Except he didn't. He gave a guarded reply that fuelled more paranoia. Of course they can't make you pay subscription for things you own. But anything else could be on the table.
Of late NI have made some pretty ridiculous decisions so to think that they might believe going subscription only would be sound finacially isn't so big a stretch.
Thing is they could put this to bed properly and proffessionally in a heartbeat by saying exactly what their thinking is but they don't. Heaping on the spin by saying they are listening to us then ignoring any queries, disappearing for weeks, coming back and saying hey I been away but nothing else only adds insult to injury, something NI have been known to have a mastery of.
Yes if they screw up or anything else what we have still works but strange as it may seem many of us want NI to be successful and believe that working in concert with the users is perhaps a better way to achieve that. The sad fact that they appear not to believe that might lead some to believe that just maybe they are not on a good track...........................................

 

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Ridiculous is always within context, so without examples...

So here's the thing why I'm not worried (apologies up front for going slightly offtopic). I'm a rather vivid Reason user, which is a "music making platform" (not necessarily a DAW). Thing is: the company behind Reason ("Propellerheads") got taken over (or sold to..) by an investment firm and right now the company course is kind of obvious: try to add move value to the company and then eventually sell said company.

The one thing they didn't do (even though this would be really easy) is discontinuing their current sales model and exchange it for a subscription only basis.

One way or the other.... revenue and profit are most important to a company. And as a bystander it's plain out impossible to determine what things are more profitable. Crazy conspiracy theory: Reason Studios dropping support for ReWire (which was the basis for using Reason together with another DAW) makes it all the more appealing to jump ship and move onto Komplete. Also considering that Komplete will cost you E 599,- which is only E 50,- more than getting Reason Suite (which is basically a closed platform).

I am convinced that you know much more about N.I.'s history than I do. But I've seen plenty of companies trying to change their ways to try and generate more revenue and/or making more profit. And honestly.. I've never seen going "subscription only". I also do not believe that N.I. would be that out of touch with commerce, it would be suicide. On way too many levels.

 

I think the most obvious ones are releasing Mikro without Midi support, the Mk2 keyboards without MCU, The amateur way sounds.com was launched and then upsetting everyone by dropping development elsewhere to 'fast track' it's implementation, promising Massive X in time for Komplete 12 then delaying it and then releasing it in a somewhat unfinished state, promising a song layer to be released soon after Jam that never materialised.

I have no idea of the possible reality of the potential profitability of going subscription only but that speech in the previous video can be read as heading that way although not by everyone it seems. It is obvious that no one on this forum wants it and if NI are supposedly pursuing both a listening and communicating approach as they claim to be then why won't they talk to the users instead of at them if at all in real terms.

There has lately been a change in approach particularly from Kai and the development team which has been very welcome and does indicate a willingness to work with the users but then sadly this whole thread reads righly or wrongly to me as a kak handed and insincere damage limitation piece of spin.

 

Massive X.

 

Whoops...thanks ..ammended

 

Totally agree here with ShelLuser

I dont quite get why people try to force some kind of confirmation about the subcription topic.

Have you ever thought about that NI might not have this finalized yet?
If so, then how could they confirm it now?

Having said that I think Paul was clear on saying that they will not have a subscription "only" base. Maybe some parts will be, big deal. It could also be some kind of new online platform like splice and I never seen any of those without a sub model. It's pretty normal and it doesn't mean it affects any existing products.

Don't get me wrong, I personally would not like a subscription model for the instruments but in the end NI is a business. And a few people on the NI forum saying they like or don't like subscriptions of any sorts is not really a sufficient assessment of what Millions of people actually want and are willing to pay for.

I love my S49 mk2 and together with the Komplete it is pretty fantastic. They can still make great products and have innovative ideas that I cannot find with any competitor, so I am pretty confident they keep innovating in the future as well. I'll just wait and see what the next year will bring and what that mystic "One Native" thing will bring. But I can't believe that my investment will not just be eradicated and replaced with some sub only system. That is simply unrealistic to happen.

 

The worry is that some areas that people use now might become subscription only. If say this was Kontakt or a follow on from Kontakt that meant that users would only be able to use any 'upgraded' features by going subscription only then obviously they would not be enthusiastic about it.
Lately NI say they are now listening to the user base (why on earth they should ever not do is disturbing) and it's obvious from posts on here that that worry or paranoia has raised it's head a number of times from many different users.
Whilst NI may not know what their future plans are exactly they should know whether anything along those lines is 'on the table' and if that is not so why not properly allay those fears by being clear about it? Not doing leads some to worry that ideas along those lines are being seriously considered with scant regard for the users.

 

Apologies for a late comment because I totally overlooked your previous response.

Agreed, which is also why I think it's quite unlikely.

Let's say that N.I. would indeed pursue this idea then the most logical outcome would be a majority of users will simply stay put and continue to use the versions they already paid for, I don't think that would be very healthy for N.I.. I definitely agree with you about the lock-in (I should have read that part a lot sooner! ) but even that doesn't really make me worried concerning these kinds of developments.

Of course I can only speculate but for all I know they chose this approach to avoid interference from 3rd party software between the Maschine software and the controller. It's just a theory but still...

Well, IMO this is a situation which they can never 'win' either way.

Let's say they debunk this by stating that they won't apply subscription models; how many users would believe this? I can't help but be convinced that some will then start sharing examples of previously broken or forgotten promises and end up concluding that this statement is further proof that they actually might be doing something like this but simply don't want to upset the market.

Or they tell us that they will apply a subscription model but only for specific software parts; the idea would be to make their software more accessible (for example you could rent Massive X for 2 months and then be done with it). Then how long before people will start to speculate that because they are thinking in this direction it'll only be a matter of time before they remove any perpetual payment options?

So yah, although not impossible I still have some serious doubts about the theory.

 

My 2 cents, the best way to make in more accessible to people is keep doing what you are doing but with the inclusion of rent to buy. please dont force your customers going forward into a subscription model. Just being honest here but that type of model will push customers like myself away to buy into other hardware/software ecosystems. Hence why adobe no longer eats out of my wallet.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Just curious, can anyone get Native Instruments to respond to support submittals? I've emailed them several times about issues with "session guitarist strummed acoustic" playing past where the midi stops and no response. I'm here in Nashville in the music industry and it's become a standing joke to get any support from Native Instruments. We're loosing faith in this company fast.

 

Is not it better to open the Ticket for Support? Email may and may not work. It may go to spam or get lost somewhere....

 

Thanks Paul for this message. However what I think the NI family wants more now than ever is to ensure that when we are faced with a problem with any of your product and contact your support team they should be replied too. A lot of DJ's have moved to your competitors because of this reason. We do not get help when urgently needed as your competitors provide to their customers. There are still some technical complaints on this forum that your support team has not bothered to address, I remember and others will confirm those days when you can pick your phone and call support and immediately someone in the technical department just within a minute tell you what to do to resolve any issue . Now is after 3 or 4 days (that is even if they will care) send you a reply referring you to the manual or send you pages of instructions for you to read and figure out by yourself how to resolve it. Remember that none of us is the designer or developer of any of your products, not everyone is educated enough to interpret some of those volumes of written instructions. We now have to resort to repairers to help in certain issues that a 5 minutes telephone advise will resolve. Briefly put your support after sales is virtually non-existence compared to what is provided by your competitors. Some of us love your products and we will support but it's very painful and costly sometimes to keep using your products. I am in the UK and will send Serato in New Zealand a message about an issue and within 24hrs there is a reply requesting to be called to help resolve it. With NI we will be lucky if we even get a reply. Sometimes its just your auto reply with a ticket reference. After 2 days, that is if you are lucky, another email asking whether you have resolved the issue. This is just not good enough most especially if you have coughed out £700 for a hardware like the S4 MK3 that I have.

So please beef up your support department and let them be pro-active to your clients.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.
Kind Regards
Mani

 

Thank you for words of assurance. I am a 6 months user with Maschine MK3 and thinking about an S49. When I heard rumors a month after purchase I said to myself “Please, not another Edsel”.

 

Now with Apple going full Arm in two years NI needs to hurry up or being totally Avided being Traktor Dj2 a Torq2 historical repetition...

The NI is an x86 based company old mantra repeated by CEO at interviews not so long ago maybe is echoing in his head some nights when market was saying iPads are the lead to future... let’s hope Big Sur and whatever it comes after set the tools for proper technology shift and NI has a plan like it seems with Traktor (now universal but so behind in features...) for the rest of products.

Bad news... it seems subs model is the only way to go (NI excluded Traktor from early ranting users but ATM is free... will it be subs? iAP? Well see...) so Native One seems the Native Access on the cloud for all the products ...?

We will see. Lockdown just made things even harder/weirder IMO...

 

Traktor DJ will be fine.