A plea to NI on Kore's development

It was recently revealed that Kore would receive 64 bit support then development would stop, as NI have decided that Maschine is where the money is.

As a user of Kore I would like to make a request of NI to rethink this decision.
I am not a percussion player, I in fact write only the melody parts for the sequenced music I do; I play guitar and keyboards live with a real drummer doing the beats. I have invested in NI's live performance hardware and software, Kore 1 then 2, Rig Kontrol and Komplete. I have had Komplete for years, since V2 in fact. There is a list of plug ins I own that now are legacy that's as long as the list of current offerings from NI:

Intakt
Kompakt
Spektral Delay
Vokator
Akoustic Piano
Elektric Piano
B4
Pro-53
and now Kore.

The sample based stuff had been able to be ported to Kontakt (Elektric and Akoustic Piano, Kompakt and Intakt), but NI, the one company with an environment that could recreate these lost 'synthesis' devices B4, Pro-53, Spektral Delay and Vokator, decided not to. This was disappointing to say the least.

None of that is as bad for live performance as losing Kore, there really isn't anything comparable on the Mac, and little on the PC, to Kore. What this has done is make me really rethink my loyalty to NI as a company. I have found that there are numerous other plug in manufacturers out there that have legacy software, plug ins they no longer develop, that they update for every new version of Windows and OSX, they are not out of business and seem to be doing well.
I buy hundreds of dollars worth of guitars and I still have the guitars years later, I buy hundreds of dollars in software, and business decisions like NI is making right now make that software not compatible with the next computer I buy if the OS breaks the software.

I think most of us were expecting a really nice controller keyboard with Kore functionality that integrated with Maschine, not to be put into a situation where Maschine, (with it's not arguably percussion orientation), was going to destroy Kore.

Please rethink this decision, the future of sound is not all percussion based, and Kore is well loved by enough people to justify it's further development. I see no reason why Kore wouldn't be the choice of any live performer if it was to be developed further, considering that the only complaint was CPU saving which is becoming less and less of an issue with each new chip release.

 

Very good post. I hope they listen.

 

SO SO RIGHT....

 

+1 to this.

There have been a lot of very articulate posts in recent days about these issues - in contrast to the (so far) pretty clumsy way in which the information about Kore's discontinuation has come out.

Hopefully Keir will shortly post a clear and informative explanation about what's going on. It's the least we should be able to expect.

 

I would say take a deeper look at Maschine. It is not just for playing "percussion". It is also for sequencing melody parts as well as recording live instruments. NI went much further with Maschine in terms of fully dedicated mouseless workflow. The recently announced 1.7 update for Maschine should be getting more Kore-like features. Maschine is definitely worthy enough to replace Kore should NI decide to implement the rest of Kore's features into Maschine which is the direction things are going. Look at it this way: two very powerful prodcts in their own right are merging and NI's development resources will be fully harnessed instead of being split between semi-redundant projects.

 

I have ZERO use for the 16 pads in Maschine, I know they do other things, but All I really wanted out of Kore was a stackable VST plug in host that responds to program change messages for perfomances, and track automation writing knobs in a small package that fits to the side of my laptop near my keyboard.

I don't want a drum sequencer, I have zero interest in playing "keyboard" parts on Maschine's pads, a little interest in adding another huge clunky device to my set up. You even own Kore? my guess is you don't.

 

That's why I save my money on a new guitar and stompboxes. My hardware and software journeys ends here. For electronic xps I'll build up my system with nonchangeable hardware like Doepfer A-100 or Dark Time as seq.

They make their decision , I'll make mine.

And it seems a decision is made and what CEO would I be if I made a decision backward only while some users are feeling disappointed. They already have a new target group or what do you think as they divided the forum in Komplete Maschine Traktor? See that point ?

After all is said and done there's bu(y)siness as usual, isn't it ?

So long NI

PS: I have Komplete 6, Maschine and Kore so I'll know what I'm talking about

For users of fine cynisim:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140266&page=4
And then Daniel Haver and Mate Galic are also gone. They made an update as DJ iDaniel and DJ iMate Jobs. :lol:

 

You talk of sequencing melody parts. 16 pads is still nowhere near enough to MAKE music. Where do you think your 'melody parts' come from? Someone tapping on pads? No. Those parts will have most come from musicians PLAYING 'instruments'. This is why I refer to Maschine as a 'DJ Toy'.

And how the hell can you describe Kore as a 'semi-redundant product'? Just because YOU have not been able to see what it could do, because it hasn't got a 'tap me and pretend to be making music' button, it is in NO WAY semi-redundant. There are people on this forum who have built enormously complex systems around Kore. Most of them are NOT going to 'buy in' to Maschine because it is basically a DJ Toy. It's for tapping on. And, no matter how skilfully one might tap, it will never replace making real music; mainly because most Maschine artists rely on real musicians to come up will stuff for them to slice and dice.

I would very much doubt that all of Kore's facilities could be built into Maschine. Even if they could, most musicians would still not want to pay what they would have to pay for the 'tap it' area of Maschine.

Now, on the other side, I can see the fun, relaxing side of Maschine. I genuinely wouldn't mind having one to play with. But it will never replace Kore.

 

Very good post machinesworkinghardforyou. Could'nt have phrased it better. A big +1!

 

Absolutely.

400€ in Order to Be able to continue using a subset of Kore features... Having bought kore2 already for 400€...

What an unbelieveable move this is...

 

Maschine is much more than a "drum sequencer". It is a modern workstation with plugin hosting. I don't play "keyboard" parts on the 16 pads. I use my keyboard controller just as one would with Kore. The bottom line is that the people talking about Kore being a "DJ toy" have no idea what theyre talking about. Maschine is definitely worthy of replacing Kore if it given all the dev resources as NI is planning to do. The 1.7 update is a good indication that things are already heading that way.

 

how i see it is that with the fussion of this 2 products we are gonna loose features that would be there if NI keep pushing the strong points of thiese 2 products.Other thing is all the time,money and expectations......

 

Here is a slightly different perspective.
It is a healthy discussion to talk about the hardware differences and applicability of the Maschine vs. the Kore controllers, but the real question is the software itself.
I simply do not understand why NI wants to stop supporting the Koresound concept for new instruments and libraries. Since the Kore software is capable of functioning with ANY midi controller, it's not about which hardware platform to support, but instead it is confusing why the excellent Kore multi-sound performance system is suddenly not good enough for NI.

Just my $0.02

--Stefanos.

 

Just because the product will no longer be developed does not mean it's going to be automatically deleted from your system. Kore 2 will still function no matter what.

I know on the surface, for us who have made significant investments to NI and Kore, that it seems like we are being dumped for the new hot girl down the block. But when you really think about it, it makes sense for NI. Maschine may not do everything Kore does now but there really isnt a reason that one day it will and I'm sure this is what is factoring into the decision to cease Kore development.

 

By that time kore should´ve been able to do much more if its development wouldn´t been dropped so long ago ,imagine i was waiting for news regarding kore 3,how stupid i was.....

 

oh the collateral damage! i know for sure that i won't be buying Komplete 8 now

 

I really agree, too. I wonder what Kore could have been with some further tweaks. Slowly people begin to realise that software is usable live as well and NI could be far ahead in giving those people the software to do this. However, NI does not seem to consider this as important.
Others really love to use Kore for producing new exciting sounds in the studio, which are already shaped for live use, as both could be done with one product.

With all the ballyhoo which is done with maschine, I've watched some videos to find out what it's really about...
Slicing samples and putting them into loop patterns really seems to be the art of producing music nowadays? I've never liked hip hop and similar stuff due its lack of variations and repetitive sound. Even though that's what people are looking for? Complex music is just a side note when everybody is happy with the sound of iPod earphones.

 

All true, BurtaN. VERY true. All of it.

 

Well, I've helped build this company (NI) into what it is by purchasing their products long ago with my hard earned money (I bought Pro-53 when it first came out, among several others). And have continued to do so through the years. Finding Kontakt led me to Komplete, which in turn led me to Kore. Once I got the idea of what kore was, and what it could be, I immediately purchased both Kore 2 and Komplete 7, with the thinking that it would become the center of my studio. I have long been a proponent of both every chance I got, praising not only the products but the company as well. Slowly watching all of the updates to 64bit by each product in the Komplete line I was eagerly awaiting for the time when Kore would become 64bit to complete my all 64bit setup. Kore was the last piece.

And now this news. Well I can tell you that I am VERY soured by this, I think it's a huge mistake on NI's part as well. One of the main problems with Kore is that most people STILL don't understand what it is and what it can do. I think if more people understood Kore better, there would be ALOT more users, and maybe then NI would keep it around.

Oh well, I can tell you this. I don't care anymore. Just give me my 64bit update NI and go do what you want. I won't be paying attention to you anymore. I don't care about you any more, and I certainly don't want to buy anything from you any more.
I don't want Machine at any price as I don't use "beats" or "loops" or play in front of a crowd in a nightclub. I make real music with real instruments from scratch. Kore is a perfect tool for creating amazing complex sounds that would otherwise be incredibly hard to do.

Once I do have Kore 64bit, I don't plan on upgrading ANYTHING in my system for a long time. I have a really fast system that I am barely tapping into right now, so I don't forsee needing any new OS, DAW, or synths or samplers. It's working great, except for having to bridge Kore.

I truely really don't care anymore.

 

I think a1mixman's point is VERY true. Too few people understand what Kore is about. Let's be fair, it's potential scope is so wide, it needs thinking about. Added to this, there is the 'problem' of how people intitially perceive new equipment, how to use and what best to do with it. I have a personal example: when, many years ago, I first heard about the (then) 'new' art of sampling (via the Fairlight), my imagination went into overdrive. I thought of how (if sampling ever became affordable) we could combine various aspects of one sound with other aspects of another (my personal dream was to use the transient of my grandmother's chip pan and the decay of a grand piano). But what did the bulk of sampler owners do? They spent their time going 'n..n.n.n.n.nineteen' or trying to copy the drum sound from 'Let's Dance'.

I really think that, with more education (if that's not too patronising a term) and more of the promised development, Kore could STILL be a 'go-er'. It just needs more of a marketing push to get it to 'click' with those for whom it hasn't. There are enough of us here who think it's wonderful and I would guess that none of us are particularly 'special'. We just 'get it'. Like some people instantly get those 'magic eye' pictures. We just need to find a new way of looking at Kore, and a way of spreading the word.