A plea to NI on Kore's development

Yeah, that's a crappy discount, I think NI's has to offer around $400-$500 U.S. to stop the beat down. (The beat down part is a joke, no real threat)

 

And they need to address the issue for those customers who already have a Maschine and don't need a second one.

 

Or for the owners of Kore who don't own Maschine and don't ever want to

 

...that too!

 

And then they developed a new DAW with Maschine2 as part of it , new innovating touchpad iMaschine, all 100% compatible with Komplete8 synths and effects and Kore-like features. Then we're all going ashamed in our corner.

 

400 € is a stupid price for a stupid bad remake of a MPC...
And...
The maschine can't replace Kore, simply because it's not the same use and not the same users. Same a young CEO beginning at economic school can understand that.
The worst and bad business strategie I've never seen...
."We are all creators, good luck !"

 

I just wanted to chime in here with my disappointment at Kore's death. I don't like to jump the gun without an 'official' announcement but it looks like this is happening.

Like many of you I really 'bought into' this platform. As a keyboard player/composer the hardware form factor suits me perfectly, and I will continue to use it and get the most I can out of it until my unit dies (hopefully a long time away).

It was my enthusiasm about Kore that led me to get in touch with Peter of CDM about writing some tutorials on it, and this eventually led to the Kore @ CDM site, which I thoroughly enjoyed working on and which people seem to have found useful judging by the feedback.

As a user, I have hundreds and hundreds of hours invested into my database/KSDs and $2100 spend on Kore/Komplete. I've always expected that NI would continue working on Kore and refining the hardware (an OLED display like the OP-1 would have been perfect for Kore 3...<sigh>) because it was billed as the way to keep all of their instruments manageable (along with many of their competitors'), so it is safe to say I am disappoint.

However I do understand that NI are a business and their goal is to maximise profit. As it happens I was reading a blog article this morning about a Berkeley class field trip to Berlin, which included a visit to NI HQ, and came across the following paragraph (published May 16):

My plea to NI would be this:

1. Please release any KoreDB/KSD management tools if you have any. It doesn't matter if they are hacks, anything would be appreciated.
   
   
2. As the Kore (and especially Kore/Komplete) user base represents a group who more than any other have invested completely in the NI experience, please make your future products backwards compatible with the KSDs & databases we have worked on.
   
   
3. Offer a better discount than €400. Seriously.
   
   
4. The ultimate mark of respect would be if NI gave us access to the Kore hardware protocol, so that we can build our own Kore hardware. For example, I make my own hardware but I'm still willing to pay for the build quality & integration of NI hardware. Since Kore controllers are no longer being manufactured this would allow users like me to maximise their investment when the hardware eventually fails.

Full Disclosure: I have worked as a beta tester/sound designer for NI and as a writer on the Kore @ CDM site.

 

We're not jumping the gun either...We're just letting NI know how we are feeling about this "unfortunate decision" and if they do intend to follow through with it, we are showing them what sort of damage this could do to a company's reputation and trade mark value...

In case they haven't noticed at NI yet,there hasn't been one post from a Kore user to say that he dancing around singing hallelujah because of this decision..But there have been "one or two " comments from users who are "a little disappointed" about the axing of Kore

We are usually a passive lot,but NI have severly mis-judged the response to this one - so they'd better sit up and listen right now while they still have a chance !

Customer loyalty is very important for survival in this very competitive marketplace..

So all we've really done is to give them a few more things to consider before they make that "official announcement"

Ohh...And by the way...The NI hardware has always been excellent quality stuff...The many Kore 2Controller's,Rig Kontrol 3's and Session I/O's I own have always been bulletproof - 100% solid !

 

The gun jumping remark wasn't a comment on everyone's (justified) anger, I just meant that personally I don't want to berate them before getting the full story.

But I did want to give my opinion now in the hopes that it will have some effect on what happens - I'm looking forward to what Keir/Thomas et al have to say about all of this.

You're absolutely right - I think this whole thing boils down to loyalty. I will be really surprised if Kore users aren't given an attractive alternative path since we all came down this road with such enthusiasm.

 

No worries...I think that we're all on the same page...We're not really attacking NI here We're just trying to provide them with some positive reasons why this
"unfortunate decision" could be very detrimental to their business

Most of us don't want Maschine as a trade off for them thinking that they can stop development on Kore...

The guys who wanted Maschine have already bought it and are very happy with it..

So if we lobby hard enough BEFORE they make the "official announcement" then we are hoping that a "re-evaluation" of the decision might be made - after listening VERY CAREFULLY to the user feedback...

After all - that's what these open forums are about - aren't they ?

So on Monday - Berlin Time - we are hoping for more than a few scraps and some dog biscuits thrown our way to placate us...We want a BIG,FAT juicy bone handed to us with an apology note and a commitment not to be so hasty in closing down a program that has so much potential for ALL computer based musicians worldwide !

 

1. 
   
   As I've asked in several threads is what we really need is ndp creation/conversion tools. NI seem to be the only ones who are able to easily create the "built in" templates that Kore has for various plugins (although a couple of enterprising individuals have tried hacking the format in xml editors this is beyond the scope of most of us and not a viable approach). So us users have had to use the ksd format to create our own templates but there are limitations to that approach - namely that if a plugin gets updated (say the dev adds an extra osc or filter) it is very tedious to have to go back to all the Koresounds you have created with that template and add that extra osc/filter (in fact its often not worth the effort if you have imported lots of sounds already). Creating templates with ndp extensions would mean they are loaded automatically by Kore with the plugin.

 

People Power at the Kore of it all...

Let's keep lobbying folks...There's still a few hours before the "development meeting" - love that title - and the official announcement...well - the execution or the reprieve really ..

We all seem to think that Kore is not guilty and shouldn't have to make the
highest sacrifice...

I don't think that there has ever been so much activity regarding a single issue on these forums - or as many "heart-felt" comments that are directed at NI's management ....It's really warm & fuzzy

So surely NI would be a little crazy to pull the trigger without pause for further consideration at this point ?

But let's wait until the "official announcement" and see what Danny and his Mate have decided after all of this activity

Keep the pressure up boys...People power is a wonderfully powerful thing !

 

I am very frustrated that Kore might be scrapped; it is my go-to application when I want to tinker with sound. I've built sounds in Kore that can't be replicated outside of Kore (not easily anyway), and I've cataloged thousands of sounds with custom attributes - an amount of work I don't want to repeat.

If NI updates the Maschine interface so that it is just like the Kore interface except uses the Maschine controller instead, I would be placated. The Kore knob box would be missed, but at least it could run as a MIDI controller (and soundcard if those drivers can carry over to new operating systems). The important thing, for me, is that the Kore software functionality live on.

If it all dies though; the sounds, the attributes, everything; I will have to rethink whether I want to involve myself with NI. Can I put money into products that won't function beyond the current decade?

 

Some additional thoughts. Sorry for the length of this.

1. I think NI may have hit the iceberg and may be sinking.

Call it business acumen from my decades of being in business and my experience as an investor and a human being who reads the newspaper. Or call it gut feeling. Whatever it is, I've seen this before. When a company begins eliminating its core products (no pun intended), the company is usually in a lot of trouble.

Until NI comes out with a clear, concise, and encouraging statement (and actions to back up the statement), I will remain doubtful of the long-term health of this company.

This Kore thing was such a bad screw-up, I am forced to believe that there are other screw-ups happening, some we can't see. All it takes is one or two serious ones and we'll all be "ex-NI" users with no way to authorize our purchases when Service Center goes away. And that goes for 3rd party products that depend on Kontakt, Reaktor, the old Intakt, and/or the Service Center.

Call me over-reactionary if you wish, but when they decide to get rid of Kore, you must admit that the possibility of complete insolvency of NI is not "zero". I await the official announcement is in the coming week with interest and concern.

2. The customer must do the responsible thing for himself.

My success or failure in life is wholly dependant on ME and what I do. So while waiting for NI to blow faery dust up our butts, I've decided to begin preparations now for the possibility that NI will be no more maybe as early as this year or next. I've been spending the weekend looking at competitors' sound libraries and especially those that DO NOT depend on Kontakt or require authorization or patch downloads via NI's Service Center.

KVR has a lot of stuff that bears additional attention. Some is quite good and even better than comparable NI tools. Native Instruments, this is all your fault. Until this weekend, I was quite content to do most of my shopping in your store, but now I have many many more choices.

But I thank Kier for the warning siren, because now I've been empowered to take proactive action. This Kore debacle is a mess-up in the worst way, and it's not Kier's fault; it is NI Management's fault. It should be a red alert of the highest order for anybody using any NI products, especially if they have a hardware component such as Maschine, Traktor, or the much vaunted Guitar Rig.

3. I've been thinking seriously about the future of my relationship with NI. It's good to do this periodically, even when all seems well, but even more so now when everything about NI is doubtful.

Believe it or not, I have not yet sworn off all Native Instruments products. Not yet. I want to buy a couple of Scarbee packs; basses and Funk Guitar, along with the two new Maschine packs and the George Duke keyboard pack. I know that Maschine is not on the chopping block (yet), but with last week's news, ALL of my purchases are on hold until I see what NI is going to do and until I regain confidence in the company's health and well-being.

Additionally, my expectations will be higher for the initial release of any new product from Native Instruments. Think about it: If we can't count on updates or continued support, then why should we be so damned forgiving and patient for updates?

As for this year's upcoming Komplete 8 (if it happens, that is): Each year, a new version of Komplete usually is announced in the October time frame. That's only four months away. If NI wants me to consider purchasing K8, I'll need these assurances.

(A) It will be fully compliant with Kore 2, including 64 bit. That means no more promises; the capability must be there out-of-the-box.

(B) Native Instruments gives us proper assurances that the Service Center (or an alternate activation tool) will continue to be available should the company go out of business. Put this in the EULA, please. And on the page describing how wonderful the Service Center is. It's the least you can do for us users.

And, looking ahead...beyond Komplete 8:

(C) I would like to know how long Native Instruments will promise to maintain that product. Again, please put it in the EULA. Software Maintenance for 12 months, for example. Hardware support for 3 years. Or 5 years. Or whatever. Just make the promise and put it in writing, so that as a consumer, I can base my purchase decision on something more than a vague idea of how long your products will be viable.

For me, Native Instruments has some work to do to restore my confidence. I'm waiting and listening with interest.

 

If NI is reading these posts: Please note that it is the SUPPORT for the existing INVESTMENTS (including purchased Korepacks and self-created ksds) that most people worry about. For all of us Kore fans, Kore has been a success story. A crossgrade to Maschine is meaningless without the ability to carry forward our existing Kore investments.

 

The fact that NI mentions dev resources being reallocated to Maschine in their statement about the future of Kore and that they've already offered an upgrade path discount of Maschine for Kore owners tell me that the Kore sound format will definitely be supported in the transition to Maschine. The recently announced 1.7 update for Maschine is all about better integration of Komplete products while hosted inside Maschine.

 

The Point of No Return...

BIF...Sorry to paraphrase it all my friend - but I like what you have to say..100%

Up until this "announcement" on the axing of Kore,I posted very few comments on these forums..I was 100% supportive of NI and all of my comments were positive -well apart from the fact that Vintage Organs just doesn't "feel" like B4 II

I have been too busy using the products to bother talking about them and I use them almost every single day of my life...

Maybe the "feedback" that Daniel and his Mate have received from this "unfortunate decision" may be a catalyst for change within the company and that they may gain some positive insights into improving their customer relations and services...

I have been accused by a couple of the more "passive" posters,of being a little too "confrontational" with regards to the Kore issue...

Like you - I see it as a very serious issue that needs to be dealt with in a very serious and forthright manner... Fighting fire with fire...I'm hoping that we can draw Danny and his Mate out from behind the cover of Keir and get a bead on them

If NI don't address this issue in a postive manner - with total respect for their user base,then we will all be able to clearly see that there are systemic problems within the NI business structure...

I don't think that NI are going to go broke any time soon,but some things move very quickly in this modern world...Just look at recent events in the Middle East...With all of the new means of communication taking us away from the traditional "official line",people power has really taken on a more potent impetus...

Already,this has seriously damaged NI's trade mark value and they say that it takes around 7 times more effort for a company to build up a positive image than to generate a negative one...I haven't felt a great deal of love being generated by the Kore decision...

The guys who run NI are very intelligent and focused individuals,but they should really listen to us right now - before it's too late and things go beyond the point of no return....ajw

 

Now, to add another consideration to the mix, I've just experienced first-hand the disastrous effects of using Kore Player in Pro Tools 9 (as I've just noted in this thread).

Reopening a session that contains Kore Player causes a complete system freeze. I had to reboot using the power button, as other users have noted.

This is exactly the kind of compatibility issue that needs urgently to be fixed before Kore development stops altogether.

 

"Pro Tools", what's that, a bunch of wrenches and pliers you buy at Home Depot? A line of circular saws and drill presses for professional carpenters?

I've always found DAW names funny. Pro Tools? Audacity? Fruity Loops! Okay, Cubase. Nuendo? Reaper! This DAW industry is really goofy and nobody says what they mean or what they are. It's very very messy and dysfunctional.

Of course you are exactly right, but if the issue only happens in Pro Tools and not in say, Cubase, Nuendo, and other DAWs, then maybe it's not the fault of Kore Player but instead lies somewhere in the way that Pro Tools handles plugins.

 

I feeld really sad about the decision to stop kore development too. Kore 2 started becoming my favourite live tool (I'm using it along with several other Komplete products in my 3 deck keyboard setup in a nice midi compound and it works really well.
I recently had a decent amount of other keyboard players having a look at my setup and all of them were very interested in Kore and liked the basic idea of it's workflow.
I would buy a Kore3 upgrade, i want NI to know this

Thanks for adding at least 64 Bit support!

If you plan to replace kore with maschine i would really appreciate it, if you would integrate the kore hardware controller into maschine and offer me a crossgrade package
I've always been curious to maschine and i am willing to explore it's functionality.
To use it live as a keyboard player it needs to be able to react on Midi Program Changes and offer a decent live-view, because those are the things i really like about KORE (don't forget the sound browser!).

Thanks for giving me a great tool with Kore. I would bew really happy if you would change your mind and head towards KORE3.