A plea to NI on Kore's development

I hear what you're saying -- but even if the problem lay largely with Pro Tools, there'll be no particular incentive for Avid to fix it, or even for NI to talk about it with them, if Kore is no longer under development...

 

Sonar X1 Pro x64...That's almost a Komplete package right there...ARIA Player is also starting to get moving and there are bright things on the way for that one..

Kontakt,Battery,FM8 and B4 II are my primary focus with NI and I've already starting porting over the main sounds should I need to exit stage left.....

But I'll always keep B4 II because it's lighter than the real thing and that one's got the mojo for me

 

I'm already hearing that - I have an issue with Kore in Reaper and the devs are saying they won't prioritise it because Kore is being discontinued. Ripples spreading fast...

 

Maybe there's a few tribesmen in the Kalahari desert that aren't up to speed with Kore right now - although they probably have sat phones these days

Ripples ? More like a Tsunami at this stage......

 

I have been reading comments like this which prove some people simply don't have a clue about Maschine.

Another person referred it to a DJ toy? Maybe if all you use are 16 pads and drums.

Perhaps it would be good if people state if they actually use Kore and Maschine and know the features of both before they make these posts?

I have used Kore and Kore2 for several years. Like most, there are wonderful things about it, and in my opinion problems that would never make it a "professional" tool. Just one example is the Browser library, and spending hours creating tags which will be worthless if you install a new version of the same VST. There are issues that could be fixed, but for some reason NI didn't think it was worth it.

Yes, Maschine has 16 pads. Apologies to those who hate the appearance of drum pads. It did start out as a highly integrated drum machine, but it does a lot more now. Just enjoy the lighted drum pads in a dark studio. Maybe that will make up for Kores lighted encoders that fade in and out via automation.

Hummm.....Maschine also has 8 knobs and 8 buttons, all assignable...and a larger display. (unfortunately the encoders are not as nice feeling as the ones on the Kore controller)

Maschine still has a long ways go to before it can duplicate the functions of Kore. Right now to my knowledge it can't even batch import NI VST patches...let alone outside 3rd party patches from non NI VST's. The browser is lacking, and if they don't change certain things the Maschine browser will be no better than the Kore browser. No one wants to spend hours creating tags that will only be deleted with future VSTI upgrades.

What I think is ironic is some core di-hard Maschine users who mainly use it to make "beeetz" are complaining that all the new non-drum features will bloat it down and make it too hard to use. That could be true if NI is not too careful.

Keep in mind Kore can run inside Maschine. Maschine can run inside Kore. Both of course still run inside your DAW or stand alone.

I think its disappointing NI won't push Kore further. But if I can do everything inside Maschine that I did inside Kore, I wont complain. I don't mind 16 drum pads.

NI has recently cut back on phone support, and their email support is a joke. The company as a whole seems to be running a little thin at the moment. I do think offering a cross grade for Kore users would really help...the current figure I read is a joke.

 

I use both Maschine and Kore 2.

I don't disagree with your post, except that I find this statement STUNNING.

What I find stunning (and even stupefying) is that in one breath you reference cutbacks on phone and email support, and use the phrase "running thin", and in the next sentence, you actually entertain the thought of paying money for a crossgrade.

Huh?

Just how do you NOT get concerned about the company's health and future viability considering your very own observations? Just how do you NOT blink an eye at the thought of possibly spending more money when the support is falling down on the job and maybe even the future of this company is in doubt, again, by your own observations?

I don't mean to pick on you, but your sentiment is quite common here and I have to ask. If you tell us have a lot of money to throw at hardware and software, I would understand, of course.

 

PM

BIF..I just tried to send you a PM...Something positive for you...Open up the PM channel ajw

 

Hey DB. I had PMs turned off; normally I prefer to keep everything in the public eye. I've turned it on now. Will leave it on for the day before shutting it off again. You may need to resend your PM.

 

I think NI is down, but not at all close to being out of the game. The economy is horrible. And it's not just NI. I would bet Arturia is running much more thin considering their recent offerings. Even Steinberg under the guidance of Yamaha is too cheap to print a user manual for Wavelab7, a professional mastering program that is very powerful...if you can figure out how to use it without any guidance. There are mastering engineers who have all but given up simply because there is no user manual.

Personally, with NI, I have to consider the consequences of how much future use I can get out of hardware or an application if they were to go bankrupt tomorrow. I can still use Kore years into the future even when support is dropped. I'm still using Pro-53 in spite of all the users who claimed the world would end when NI dropped Pro-53 support.

If NI can somehow combine Maschine and Kore so no functions are lost, and continue with further improvements, I'm all for that...considering Maschine might be their life support at the moment. If they continued supporting both, perhaps they ultimately would not have the resources and would file bankruptcy. I'm just guessing of course based on their recent actions. I once heard that while Reaktor & Kontakt made NI what it is today, it is their DJ line that is supporting them today. Has anyone else heard that?

My question to you would be:

If Maschine can eventually accomplish everything Kore2 currently does, and if NI offered a $250 upgrade to Maschine from Kore...Would you bite?

 

NI should be reading these posts very carefully and taking it all on board !

Darwin said that "survival is dependant on our ability to adapt to change."

I suggest that NI might be looking at some "deeper issues" at that development meeting,because there have been a few developments that they weren't originally counting on...

So we're all eagarly awaiting that "official announcement" from Berlin...ajw
---

It's not a matter of money here...It's a matter of principle...

There are many previously loyal users who,if they were offered any upgrade at any price,would bite alright

 

Well, Pro-53 is "usable", as is B4 II, Vokator, Akoustik, Elektrik, and all the rest. But those are 32 bit and for those of us who have made or are making the transition to 64 bit, they do not help with RAM constraints or large memory addressing.

At great personal effort and expense, many of us have kept up with the times and are running 4 GB, 6 GB, 8 GB, or 12 GB environments with 64 bit multi-core processors and 64 bit OS's. Whether we are professionals or hobbyists, we've done the right things by our music, or we are planning to do so with upgrades in the foreseeable future.

I've just about had my fill of software vendors who drag their feet with 64 bit processing, or who stop development and "make up for it" by not responding on forums. Can we just admit it now that 32-to-64 bit bridging sucks? Sucks in whatever way you want to call it: Sucks CPU cycles, sucks time (expecially when a failed bridge requires a restart of the DAW or worse yet, the entire PC), sucks patience and musical muse with screwed up GUI windows, inoperative buttons and features, whatever.

Oh sure, some bridging solutions suck less than others, but none are good and none should be considered a permanent solution. "Sucks less than the rest" is not a point of favor, and nothing to be proud of.

These old, abandoned products are clutter on the VSTi industry landscape, because we all have them and most of us are afraid to part with them. So we're stuck with them on our hard drives and in our projects forever and ever while also being force-fed the bland Kontakt replacements of them with every new edition of Komplete.

Another point:

I don't know where the money figure you guys are throwing about is coming from, but I doubt that a $600 product (Maschine) would ever be offered for $250, which would equal nearly a 60% discount. Even if some of us have read it in reverse and it's only a $250 discount on maschine, that still amounts to a 41% discount. I assure you neither one is gonna happen for a hardware item when they're trying to recoup manufacturing costs in a bad economy.

Think about it. They're not going to make up a 41% or 59% discount on subsequent sales of "Fuel for Maschine" when the average price of those is under $100.

The only scenario I can see huge discounts happening is if they're trying to dump obsolete or refurbished hardware stock into the market just to avoid paying hideous european environmental disposal fees and penalties.

Just the same, it will be interesting to see the reaction here if they did sell you a Maschine that had to have knobs replaced and that one new pad with the slightly brighter button LED looking at you like "HAL" and then two months later, came out with an entirely new version of hardware with Maschine and Kore functionality built in.

But so many here seem to be not the least bit concerned now, so I think it's unlikely that any huge numbers will be upset then.

Thankfully the weekend is nearly over. It's almost daybreak in Germany. Time will tell.

 

Ahh...Guten Morgen Deutschland...

"There are reports in the German media that some Native Berliners are hiding under the covers this morning...They do not really want this day to begin."

 

BIF, I like you more and more with every post you make.

+1!

 

I paid $450 at Guitar Center for a new...not referb unit. I found a $100 off coupon which helped. I guess in Europe you have to pay the MSRP of $600?

I picked $250 out of thin air. If NI is serious about keeping loyal Kore users, it's going to have to be a good offer. Had NI upgraded Kore with a new controller and software, what do you think the upgrade cost would be? I just guessed $250. New purchases for a Kore3 $500.

BIF I get the feeling I'm a minority when using old software because I value it more than most who seem to always upgrade as fast as they can, and be on the leading edge experiencing problems. I run 8GB in an intel quad windows 7 64 bit with Cubase6 at 32 bit. Pro-53...Unisyn...and several others run on a separate PC in harmony. Of course some cant be integrated into my main DAW, but they are used just like another instrument in my project studio.

To me, these are just tools...amazing tools to achieve sonic objectives which contribute to a well written pop song. I don't worship these tools. I don't have the best tools, but they work day in and day out. I can rely on them to work. I try to make the most of what I'm using. Some tools like Kore, with what I felt was a poorly written manual, were harder to implement, but over time it either works for you or you sell it.

So IF Maschine implements all of Kores functions, and NI offers a tempting upgrade for those loyal Kore users, I don't understand the problem.

 

This news quite frankly sucks! In the last year I have went from a Korg hard disk recorder and a Korg Triton Studio to an all out daw system. I first purchased Komplete 6 with Kore2 and then a few months ago purchased Komplete 7. I was turned on to NI products because there was some lite versions on the Presonus Studio One software that I use. The Kore 2 controller does not work fully with the Presonus software? And now this! You know what? F@@K you NI! BTW, I recently tried out Amplitube 3.5 from IK. It kills GR4! F you and your beat box ****, YO!

 

smh

I don't get why some feel the need to bash maschine to "save" kore. You don't have to sample or dj to get use out of maschine. Even with the limitations of it's current version connect a keyboard compose. I don't own kore but i wanted it before the recent news. I'd rather the 2 product concepts remain individual. Even if i wasn't interested in Kore I find the sudden discontinuation rather cut-throat and the crossgrade offer rather costly and inadequate.

 

I'm only taking the piss when I say those things about Maschine but it is not a grand piano !

[/QUOTE]
I find the sudden discontinuation rather cut-throat and the crossgrade offer rather costly and inadequate.[/QUOTE]

A few of us are feeling that way around here

 

I love people quoting you with airless claims like yours here. I've played around with Maschine, I know exactly what it can and cannot do. You then go on to admit that it's a drum sequencer that can also be used as a control surface, not exactly the same as Kore at all. Bleh, what are you offering for conversation here? It looks to me like it's just another case of internet aggression with little to back it up.

How about I enjoy a device that fits in right next to a controller keyboard without pads I do not need? I highlighted "studio" because it makes another valid point, Kore is sold as a performance device to a large degree, and while you can use drum pads in a live environment, some of us play a keyboard live.

So it's not Kore and Maschine users don't want it to be Kore, great, I'm in agreement with them. Again, how does that play into your assumption that Kore users are not giving Maschine a fair chance at replacing Kore?

...of course you don't, why bother being a jerk about it though? What's the point in that? IMO the ego sometimes gets in the way of rational conversation, assumptions on what other users want and need also do.

NI actually are doing very well, having just bought out their investors and reported a hefty profit margin last year, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with them hurting?

 

i totally concur with BIF's sentiments about bridges.

edit: oh yeah, and i got Maschine this past november for $450 at Guitar Center