a way too expensive...

Discussion in 'KONTROL F1' started by Sparksta, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Carl Hern

    Carl Hern Forum Member

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    The software has to always be bundled with the Hardware. It's a marketing necessity! If they don't bundle any kind of version ( any version! ) of the software with the Hardware, customers will be up on arms more than what they are now complaining about what they already have!

    At the end is a question of you either wanting it and needing it, because it does appeal to your djing style, workflow and creative level or, it doesn't! You can't really put a price on creativity and progress, can you?


    :D:D
     
  2. gNNY

    gNNY NI Product Owner

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    79
    We can argue all day long which controller is more expensive to manufacture, in the end neither you nor me can and will know for sure.

    For argument's sake, let's assume you're right and the F1 is so much more expensive to build than the X1 that NI had to put an extra 50 EUR on the price tag. What would that mean for the Software? Does the difference between the LE included with the X1 and the Pro version coming with the F1 not have an impact on the price at all? If I understand you correctly, it doesn't because the price increase comes from the higher production value of the F1. Does that in turn mean that NI is giving away the Pro version for free with every F1?
     
  3. Carl Hern

    Carl Hern Forum Member

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    116
    :D:D
     
  4. gNNY

    gNNY NI Product Owner

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    79
    Ok, so we've established now that I am wrong and you are right.

    Still, the question remains: how much does the Pro version of Traktor add to the total price of the F1? Since you already gave some numbers for the LEDs, Knobs, Faders, etc, I guess you can also put a price on the Software.

    And regarding another point you've made:
    For christmas, I bought a Laptop for my parents and specifically looked for one without OS since I already had a spare one at home. Some people like to buy from vendors that offer a choice and might even enjoy a price reduction because of that. I'm not saying this relates to the F1 discussion because I believe the Laptop example is not a very good one, I just wanted to comment on it because you brought it up and claimed that I'd do the exact opposite of what I've actually done (which I find quite amusing, mind you ;) )

    Coming back to the original question, I believe it's save to say that some people have difficulties accepting NI's pricing strategy. For some, that might even be a deal breaker. But in the end it all boils down to whether or not the F1 will perform well in the personal setup. Right now, I don't see that it will work for me, especially considering the price point. However, your milage certainly may vary on this.

    But then again, I have been wrong before, right...?
    ":D:D"
     
  5. H3PO4

    H3PO4 NI Product Owner

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    36
    1. You can make a button shine in whatever color you want using only one RGB LED. Technically, an RGB LED contains 3 LEDs, but that's beside the point because it's not anywhere near 3 times as expensive as a monochromatic LED. The orange/blue combination on all buttons but the MIDI/Hotcue button on the X1 actually requires 2 LEDs. I don't think the LEDs make much difference in the cost. The X1 just doesn't need more than 2 colors on most of its buttons. Chances are that the two units cost about the same to manufacture.
    2. As mentioned before, the X1 bundles in Traktor LE and the F1 will come with the full version of Traktor. The reasoning for this is obvious. The X1 works just fine with the LE version and they can keep the price down by making up for it with upgrade sales to those who end up going for the full version. The F1 would be pretty useless with the LE or Duo versions because they only allow 2 decks. You need 2 decks to DJ, and you need at least one more deck to be your remix deck.
    3. It still would be nice if there was a "hardware only" version of the F1 because the software is of course part of the cost and many if not most of us already own it. NI does this with all of their audio cards, as well as Maschine.
     
  6. kraal

    kraal NI Product Owner

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    468
    price and value is subjective. you are paying for 'the function' not the sum of the parts. whether you use everything in the box or not. whether you use all the function or not . you are paying for the value of the controller to you.
     
  7. H3PO4

    H3PO4 NI Product Owner

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    36
    kraal, price most certainly is not subjective and your post totally misses the point of what others are saying. The place you buy it from determines the price, and you decide if it's a good value to you. When they bundle in the software that so many have already paid for, they get a situation where the value for new customers is significantly higher than the value for those who already bought the software. The way that pans out is that people who already own Traktor are going to be significantly less likely to buy the F1 than people who don't own Traktor.
    A Traktor 2 upgrade from the previous version is $80. I see no reason to not make it so people who already have a license can pay $80 less. If nothing else, give people an $80 e-voucher!
    I would bet money that most of the people who don't see the logic in this are people who don't already have a license for Traktor Pro 2. I also would be money that they would start to see the logic if they bought one F1 and started to consider buying another.
     
  8. The Carpet Cleaner

    The Carpet Cleaner Forum Member

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    100
    **** i bought tractor 2 one month ago, and now I m
    Gonna pay full price for their new controller? I want a discount croosupgrade.
     
  9. kraal

    kraal NI Product Owner

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    468
    i have traktor scratch pro... purchased a djm-t1 that came with traktor dou. that i dont use. again i say there is no real value that you can 'deduct' cause of the software included.
     
  10. gNNY

    gNNY NI Product Owner

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    79
    I suppose it is a matter of price point: for an S2 or S4 or your djm-t1 you pay a lot of money already. Out of 500 EUR, 50 EUR is only 10% but for a 250 EUR controller, 50 EUR is 20% already.

    The full version is included in the price and that what makes the F1 more expansive than the X1. However, as noted above already, it doesn't make sense to bundle the F1 with LE or Duo edition, hence the price increase. This is the bitter pill that we all have to swallow.
     
  11. supercollider

    supercollider NI Product Owner

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    69
    Why bother integrating it with Maschine? The way it looks to me, they are steering away from that route. Why strain your system with 2 programs, when 1 will do? If you prepare your loops and samples properly, it can behave almost exactly like maschine. You could even make a mapping for the maschine controller if you really wanted to.

    The only advantage of Bridge in this sense if that if you are recording your sets, you can go back and edit them in Live afterwards. But do you really want to do that? That feels more like a post production than a live mix to me...
     
  12. H3PO4

    H3PO4 NI Product Owner

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    36
    Maschine can interpret velocity data and Traktor can't.
     
  13. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,951
    If this F1 works as intended and the software is as good as we are all hoping... cool price is not too bad. Think of how much money it would take to accomplish the amount of studio style work and such... abelton is not cheap. I have tried and bought a lot of software and controllers just wasting my money. So far even with the development issues of Traktor I still have got and enjoyed more from this software than any other.

    That being said... This better all work because... my bet is some other software or hardware is going to eat NI alive if this is just a marketing trick and bragged up functionality.

    Clubs and Djs are ready to switch but its gotta be dependable more than affordable.

    My opinion...

    Also somtimes the higher price is what makes the professional buy. Kind of a peace of mind issue. Toyota vs. Lexus.
     
  14. supercollider

    supercollider NI Product Owner

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    69
    I'll give you that. But that is only one feature you are trading off for all that integration. Besides, that could be easily fixed with a software update. Though I would imagine NI would only do that if the F1 is velocity sensitive...
    ---
    Oh yes. It does and it is
     
  15. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,951
    I think we need more feedback on this thing.
    Its still all speculation and its not like Namm or some supersecret.
    Why cant we just get the facts about 2.5 and a few more videos or functions/tutorials of the F1?

    Just one Shiftee vid is not enough to make me buy this or preorder. But a good full tutorial and bugfix list for 2.5 would have us all drooling.
    ---
    Supercollider have you used the F1? Your last post sounds confident?
     
  16. Pjotr123

    Pjotr123 NI Product Owner

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    Why all the moarning ;-S This happens with every NI release. Free upgrade coming up. New hardware available, if you see added value for your style. Cannot wait for May 30th.