Solved A61 mod wheel sending midi when not being touched (KH1062-274)

Hello, I am experiencing the same issues with my Komplete Kontrol A49 Mod wheel, since i bought it at the end of 2018, but until now i had not given it much importance because i thought it would be solved with a firmware update, but after reading your experience, i have done my tests and discovered that the same thing happens to me.
Could you tell me if NI has provided any solution in this regard other than sending the keyboard to the technical service?

Thanks

 

Hi, no solution yet. Where we’re at is that they have twice sent out brand new replacement A61s and both had the fault too. They have now asked to do a remote session controlling my computer, which we’ll do at some point in next couple of weeks, though I can’t imagine how that will help as it seems pretty clear it’s an NI hardware problem.

To be honest, I’m kind of annoyed they clearly didn’t test the A61s properly before sending them out. I specifically asked them to the second time and gave them instructions on how to reproduce the fault.

 

Hi
From my experience with previous midi controllers, when a Modwheel sends midi signals without control, it is synonymous of hardware failure, and seems strange to me, that Native Instruments technicians have doubts about it ....

In my case, I just have to insert an instrument in Maschine, then start recording, and without touching anything on the controller, the midi messages from modwheel start to record automatically, affecting the sound ..... I can also monitor those messages using Midi-oX

I would appreciate if you update all the information you receive, i will also inform the technical service of my problem, to see if they understand that it is not an isolated case, and that they should take action, and review the new units.

I share your opinion, the release of the KK-A series, was a bit hasty in terms of firmware, and with the facts that are happening to us, maybe also in terms of hardware components..

Thanks

 

Yes really strange thing even my really old evolution midi keyboard had no problems and it was 14 bit pitch bend and mod wheel, like it should be, not the 7 bit ones native uses (only most significant bit + least significant only on max value). I never noticed any disadvantages to only have the 7 bit type of mw and pb but then it should work properly with that much much lower resolution (128 instead of 16384). Hope they sort it out for everyone with a update.

Than I am really a lucky one that my A49 is all OK.

Uwe

 

That's another thing, incidentally, and I don't know how normal this is, but my mod wheel may be technically 7 bit, but in practice there's only about 6 bits of precision. Moving it as slowly and slightly as possible it jumps 2 or 3 numbers at a time. Moving it back and forth, sure it'll eventually hit all 128 values one way or another, but it doesn't have a resolution of 128 for the purposes of actual control.

 

Ohh wow I can reach every value from 0 to 127 MSB + 127 LSB.

Uwe

 

I guess it's possible I'm not moving the wheel as gradually as I could, but I think I am... anyway, here's me moving it through its full range from 0 to 127. It emits every number, sure, but usually it does so two or three at a time (see timestamp) so the effective output is only the last value in the group, presumably.

 

Something that i don't like very much, has to do with the encoders, just released the controller, they had some nice resistance when turning them, but now after using them a few months, i have noticed that they have become excessively soft for me, and it seems to be playing a cheap controller........for now only three of them, keep that hardness when i bought it.
have you noticed the same?

 

Whitch controller you talking about?

 

Komplete Kontrol A49

 

Yes but what encoder or what you mean?

 

When i bought the controller, all the encoders was a little harder when turning them, and that gave them a more precise touch, now almost everyone are much softer when turning, and seems like cheap controller encoders, is strange to me, since it only has 10 months of non intensive use.

 

Did this ever get resolved with either replacement or firmware update? Also is there perhaps a way to identify the lot of KK’s that exhibit this?

 

For now, is happening with the latest firmware update available, and i'm not sure if with previous versions the same thing happened, and i don't know, if a previous version can be reinstalled without damaging the controller.

I don't know how to identify the lot, but mine must have been one of the first, since i bought it the first day it went on sale.

In addition to the Modwheel issues, I have also notified to the tech service, that the "8 Knobs" of my A49 are losing resistance, and have become very soft, making this a problem when making precise adjustments ....... I have read comments saying that this is the first symptom, before they begin to fail definitively, so i have notified and i'm waiting for an answer from the tech service, to send them the controller, and i recommend to the rest of the users, to monitor the Knobs of their A-series controllers , because the same thing could be happening to them.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I only ask as I had a similar issue with a Mk3 unit’s encoders/pots

https://www.native-instruments.com/...meter-causing-settings-to-jump-around.358683/

and wanted to see if users of KK’s
(been eying a s61 for a while now) we’re having any similar issues.

I’d be curious to see what tech support says as I was only told the encoders were faulty and needed to be replaced.

I had also read other comments in the Maschine forum regarding encoders feeing loose but as to whether or not there is any correlation I’m not sure.

Again thanks for the update I do hope you can get it sorted out!

 

Hi again!

I have read all your incidence, and honestly, i don't want the same thing to happen to me, although i will soon be able to tell it here.

Some days ago i have contacted the technical service, to tell my problems, and they have responded very quickly in every way.

-On Thursday 5 in the afternoon, i send a message telling my problems, with the Modwheel, and with the 8 Knobs.

-On Friday 6 in the morning they answer that they will process the return of my A49, because of the problem with the Modwheel, but they tell me that what happens to the 8 knobs, is normal:
"Regarding the encoders which are easier to turn after a while: this is normal because grease inside the encoders changes its viscosity."
(I accept it, but I have asked the technicians to review it anyway)

"Because of the issue with the Modwheel will hand over your case to our Repair Center now. "

- On Friday 6 in the afternoon i have shipped my A49 in the original packaging.

I have sent it in the original packaging, since i asked and they answered me:

"You will receive a fully refurbished unit but in your shipping box you've used."

-On Wednesday 11, the arrival to the repair service is scheduled.

How long will it take to receive it again? :
"within Europe you should receive the return shipment within 5-7 working days after sending the returned device."

i have also asked them if my new "fully refurbished unit" will have a sticker covering the serial number, but i haven't had an answer for now

This is all for now, i will continue updating so i have received my A49, and we will see if they have really repaired it.

 

Well that’s great to hear! Sounds like the issues I had experienced previously are getting now getting worked out.

As for the encoders, for my situation, the jumping was getting picked up when recording automation, the information about the encoder grease makes sense and I wish that was what my issue was. In any case it’s encouraging to see improvement in the communication on the customer service side. Though I saw it is being handled in Europe so you may have been dealing with NI Berlin rather than the LA office?

Fingers crossed it can get sorted for you quickly which it sounds like it is! Keep us updated!

 

Ok, latest update: NI did a remote session, couldn’t find any cause of the problem in my computer system, so (at last) went and tested a bunch of their keyboards themselves and found the same problem in all of them. They now acknowledge that there is “definitely a bug on [their] side” and are now going to try to find out what the cause is.

So that’s some progress!

 

It sounds like there has not been a proper "dead zone" range set for the Mod wheel and I am assuming it's just a simple potentiometer doing the work and not an optical sensor.

It's quite normal for the value of a potentiometer to fluctuate slightly due to heat, electrical and radio signals and just the way the contacts rest on the carbon tracks (and the slow degradation of the carbon over time). For a mod wheel, because it rests in the middle of the potentiometer range there should be a programmed dead zone so the value does not fluctuate which I have a feeling has not been set or not set correctly and should indeed be addressable with a firmware update.

I have reported this in the Beta test so it is logged so hopefully we will see an update to it soon.

 

Thank you for this, that’s very interesting. So do I understand your suggestion right that it’s not a hardware fault as such, but an intrinsic property of the hardware that should normally be corrected by firmware? Is this interpretation consistent with different A61 units having different degrees of the problem: for example the first unit I had outputted data several times every minute, whereas the second replacement unit does so only once every few minutes (and some people have A61s with no problem of this sort at all)?