ability to set custom auto-gain level

Hi,

I don't know if it's a problem with S4 software, but in many cases autogain sets the gain level way too high so the track start clipping.

It would be helpful if user could choose custom autogain level somewhere in the preferences of the application.

Scratch Live has that option

Thank you.

 

+1

custom autogain would really be helpful. Now, more often than not, I have to turn down either the gain knobs manually, or lower the master volume. When using the cue mix knob, lowering the master volume is very annoying because of the level differences, not to mention if you're doing that live… I'm guessing here, but the current autogain turns down the level of the track just enough to prevent clipping right? So the custom autogain would only have to lower the level set by the autogain somewhere between the range of -3dB and -6dB, that would be perfect!

cheers!

 

No mate thats not how Auto gain works. Autogain does not prevent clipping.
Limiter helps to prevent clipping but it wont if your are pushing the Master too hard.


All auto gain does is make the average level of a track equal to 0:0db. This is an average so it can go over or under 0:0db at times. It just increases or decreases the average volume of a track to be 0:0db.

If Autogain shows +2 then the average of that track is actually -2.

If Autogain is making your tracks clip then you are probably running the master out to hot and need to decrease the Master volume anyway.
You need to leave some room for autogain to work.

To reduce the likelyhood of clipping you should use the Limiter.

It would be difficult to force a min/max limit to autogain as it may prevent tracks from being loud enough so you would have to adjust the gain anyway.

Im not familiar with Serato Autogain. Ill have a look when i get a chance.

 

Thanks for the explanation, Karlos. It makes perfect sense. Maybe it's just a problem with S4 software then.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the master level here. I'm watching individual meters for each track. As far as I understand, those show the level before it reaches master output. They peak and go into red not "at times", but pretty much all the time when autogain is used. I'm not doing anything unusual. Most of the music I play is purchased from Beatport. I'm not processing my tracks in any way before they are played in Traktor S4 software. Yet autogain sets the level too high in most cases. Very rarely the gain level is set so that it only goes into red zone from time to time.

As for Serato, here is an excerpt from the user's guide. This implementation is not ideal for obvious reasons and you've done a good job explaining why, but it's still something you can use, if you are not satisfied with the default behavior of autogain.

"Auto gain enables you to set a uniform volume
level for the tracks in your library. When a track is
in auto gain mode, the track gain knob appears
recessed.
Check this box to enable auto gain. Provided
you have analyzed your files, your tracks will
now be loaded with the auto gain applied.
Next to this box is a drop down menu, in
which you set the target gain volume level.
To find the optimum setting, load a track with
an average volume level onto one of the Virtual
Decks. Now play the track, and take note of the
volume and LED lights inside the software.
The idea is for the track volume to be sitting
just under the clipping point (indicated by the
LED meter red-lining). If the track is too quiet,
unload it, then go to the Playback setup screen
and boost the auto gain dB value more.
Once you’ve made this adjustment, load the
same track onto the Virtual Deck again. You’ll
notice that the volume knob has automatically
adjusted itself.
Keep making adjustments on the same track
until it’s just below the clipping point. Once this
is set you won’t need to adjust the target gain
level ever again.
Because the track you used had an average
volume level, most of the other tracks in your
library should be around the same volume. You
may still need to make minor adjustments to
some individual tracks, but once that’s done
these will stay saved in the ID3 tag of the file.
TIP: Slightly too quiet is always better than
too loud. If your LED meter is in the red, it is
likely that it is clipping. Not only does clipping
not sound very nice, it can damage your
equipment."

 

hi Karlos,

are you 100% confident it acts according to the average level and not the highest peak?

i ask because i play music from a wide range of genres, including contemporary and quite old music, and i often notice that autogain fails to do its work, at least in my particular case, i need to be keeping the ear there because of quite big output differences even with autogain activated.

i always assumed it happens because autogain works setting the level according to the highest peak detected (as common normalization would do).

i guess autogain may work flawlessly when only playing beatport's technohouse tracks, since most of these tracks may follow a very similar dynamic pattern.

on top of that, i find traktor lacks of a proper vu-meter visual reference, even the S4 with the channel fader vu-meters with 5 leds.

i already made for traktor pro a request to separate the GUI fader from the vu-meter, since the button may interfere in the view of the vu-meter, and being it of a single color and without scale, one can't see when a channel is actually clipping.

another advance would be to show in that vu-meter, which will be the highest peak achieved for the track that's been loaded, as a mark in the vu-meter and adjusted real-time as one modifies the gain knob. or could be as well, as an horizontal line on top of the waveform (so as we see them side by side, we would be able to compare easily)

do you think it is worth another feature request?

thanks

 

Thanks Karlos. I didn't know autogain worked like that. I understand what you're saying here. I too thought autogain was similar/equal to normalizing.

I am used to working with a Pioneer DJM 800. So I know something about setting the gain manually When prelistening/cueing I prefer to have the master output and the individual track level outputs to be at the same level, because I often switch between master and track output. It's very annoying if the level isn't the same, because I would continually have to adjust the headphone gain every time I switch between master output and channel output.

I always have the master volume at 0 dB. I then adjust the channel level just enough to remain in the green (blue in case of traktor). The problem I have with autogain is exactly what you explained. It corrects the channel gain based on the (apparently average) track level. If you're mixing two or more tracks, combining the tracks will push the master level in the red. And you're right, I could just lower the master level, and that works. But if you want the master output and the (combined) channel output(s) to be the same on the headphones, that doesn't work. That's why I agree with the suggestion to have custom gain reduction levels to, in addition to the level that is set by the autogain, decrease that level by for example 3 or 6 dB. That way I would never have to touch the master level


cheers!

 

the autogain should not adjust average level - it should normalize to something like -6db, so that you will never clip, even with multiple channels playing.

i basically have to turn down every single track significantly (a pain given gain knobs on the S4), otherwise I'm hitting red.

 

That's the only thing i hate about the S4...
miss playing with analog mixer just because of that

 

this is in the manual,

"Worth to note is that the MAIN LEVEL meters show you the level of your mix at the output of the TRAKTOR PRO software—thus after it has been adjusted by the MAIN knob in TRAK* TOR PRO’s Master panel, but before the signal reaches the MAIN LEVEL knob on your S4. Hence, if the orange LEDs tend to light up too often, you should turn down the MAIN knob in the Master panel of TRAKTOR PRO."

if the preset is too loud, you should adjust the levels in the traktor program, instead of tweaking the knobs of te S4.

 

Just reduce the master output level by the desired amount. If, instead, you want to change the autogain on a track by track basis, you can do that, too. The autogain value is editable in Traktor.

 

This is exactly what I do. My main out is always set at -6