Ableton 10 is coming

Discussion in 'General Production Forum' started by Supercreative, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    No offense taken :D
     
  2. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

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    P
    Digital Issue #325 page 13 - it's a preview of live 10 .

    Quote:

    There are a few things absent from the announcement, which we were hoping we might see in the new Live. Most notably, given that Ableton have spent much of 2017 developing and heavily promoting their app-friendly technology Link, we half expected Live 10 to be accompanied by some kind of iOS companion. In this respect, Live still lags behind Logic, with its compatible Remote interface, and Cubase, which has a mobile counterpart in Cubasis.
     
  3. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

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    When i requested a similar feature here, i figured it would be a 'game changer'. If this works as i hope, it should allow a more spontaneous / organic way to create music. Think digital, approached in the same way as you might approach analogue audio recordings.

    As for the tempo being fixed by the first Capture clip, they could work around this with a preference setting for capture.
    Now i wonder if its too late for Live 10 to support 'multiple projects'? This would seem to be the next obvious step, so that you could copy-paste between old and new projects. Presently, multiple instances of Live would error because they would share the same audio.
     
  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I juste read the article.
    The only thing the writter for Future Magazine complained about was the lack of a dedicated Ableton Live mobile app... I find it a bit of an odd expectation since not only they made Link but also because Live is fully midi controllable, LiveControl2, LK look very tightly integrated and provide visual feedback.. to me they look as good as any hypotetical Ableton made app.
    I think the writter might not be aware of how good the available apps really are, then again im no Live pro by any means so maybe thease apps are lacking something important... If they are he should have mentioned why in his article.

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  5. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

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    Will those mobile apps export to live? I think that's the point.
    Anyway that article was one example of a reviewer expecting other features.
     
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Well... not arguing against his opinion, just confused by it since its not clear at all.
    What do you mean? Export audio? Or save a mobile project version and open it in Live?
    I found it an odd thing to mention mainly because he compares AL10 with Logic remote which appears to be a controller app and Cubasis which is a standalone mobile version of Cubase, very different things so i am not sure what he means. Lack of a controller app or lack of fully independent mobile version.
     
  7. Joca

    Joca NI Product Owner

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    An improvement in the latest Live 10 beta release: "Capture can now change the Set tempo, if a preferable interpretation is found.", seems to have addressed my original concern with Capture.
     
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  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Well... that was fast! :O
     
  9. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

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    Guess who got their Live 10 beta to test out? ;)

    I'll of course be checking out that Capture function and offering a few other suggestions....
     
  10. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    THIS!
     
  11. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    The workflow enhancements in Ableton 10 take an already very powerful DAW and make it much faster to work WITH.

    I own the list of NI products, as well as Ableton/Push 2 and I do not believe either are perfect - but the update to 10 is welcomed & I'm excited about the enhancements.

    Maschine has a better browser - period.

    NI has better sounds - but often are over-produced as you load them - so if you like cut-and-paste productions they're great. IF you like making things from your own obscure samples and processing, I find Ableton more creative and superior. To each his own.

    When I feel like making something out of mainly plugin-based sounds, I open Maschine. When I want to start with samples and get weird, I go with Ableton. When a pal comes by with any sort of external instrument and we will be recording that live into a session, combining with plugins and fx as we go - Ableton all day.

    In fact, my favorite part of ableton is the ability to just PLAY the song as I want it to be sequenced on the PUSH 2 (by firing clips and scenes live, on the fly, and recording automation to clips as it plays), only to hit TAB when I'm finished and see the majority of my arrangement ready to go. It's sick!

    Ableton has a better overall package - because it's a full-fledged DAW. It's superior for audio and (IMHO) it's superior for arrangment and the fine-tuning near the end of a project. It's a great sketchpad for building an arrangement. It's more stable. It's better for live performance (again, just my opinion) than using MK3 and Jam together.

    They are both good at a list of things. I enjoy both of them enough that I cannot let one go for the other. I just pick and choose the tool for the task. No fanboy assumptions required.

    (AudioModder's product may be the best of both worlds)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2017
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  12. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I agree with everything you said, but it's worth noting that AL Suite+Push is about 1000$ and Maschine (MK3 for example) is 600$ that's quite a difference.
     
  13. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    True, and it is worth noting. It’s also worth noting that Push is 6-800 without studio and to get the comprehensive experience from maschine it’s worth adding Jam - which brings them up to 1k each.

    I think mk3 + jam gets the closest to Push 2.

    Now if Ableton creates a Push 3 with built-in IO, USB hub, and even a dinky little 16 full-size add-on controller (to more closely match jam alongside MK3) - we will have a serious war to wage!

    I actually think Ableton is in a position to borrow from some of the innovations MPC Live/X came up with this year - they could make an Ableton version that runs on a built-in system (tucked under the Push3 in the triangular body which will face the user at 15-20 degrees in the future). By using it with your computer, you get full use of plug-ins. With a push of a button, you convert that midi track to an audio track and simultaneously freeze that midi track - to preserve it for later tweaks - and you now have a version of your project that runs standalone on your push 3 sans-laptop.

    I know. I'm dreaming. But a girl can dream, right?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2017
  14. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    I am really excited about the visualizations - especially the EQ - on the screens of Push 2. I'm better at visualizing my desired freq's (as I am a hobbyist, not a pro) so I really like looking at the visual EQ spectrum.

    They also added nice in-clip editing of midi events on the hardware, which seem more efficient/faster than editing midi events within "patterns" or "clips" on the MK3 hardware. For example, to edit the 7th bar of an 8 bar clip, you hold the button on Push 2 which corresponds - and that section is focused/ready for editing instantly. Very cool. If only Ni and Ableton would make a baby - call it "THE PROPER BRIDGE" or something.
     
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  15. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    That's very debatable... I only consider this to be true for people who seriously depend on Step Sequencing, since I don't care for it I don't care about Jam one bit.
     
  16. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    I think Jam is nice for the clip launching (although Abe wins for me in their implementation of Session view), finger strumming (although I hardly use it) and the perform FX (which I also hardly use)... Hmm... Maybe I hardly use the stuff Jam adds. It adds more than step-sequencing, but it certainly opens the door to much faster steps than with the standard hardware alone.

    OH, and Jam allows the user to keep Mute/Solo and volume control while using the Mk3 screens/knobs for other tweaks. It has some perks.
     
  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Pattern launching is cool but doesn't justify a 400$ controller, especially since it's not tempo synced and it's pretty much terrible compared to AL like you mentioned.
    The MK3 has both finger strum (Notes) and Perform Fx, so those are not a valid reason to own both controllers.
    Finger drumming in those tiny non-velocity sensitive buttons when you have a Maschine 4x4 doesent make any sense, again.. not a valid reason to own both.

    So the real advantages of having both are: mutes and possibly other controls beeing accessible while the 4x4 is on another menu and better step sequencing, the ladder being the only real significant advantage. All this to say that, no, people don't need a 4x4+Jam, unless of course they value step sequencing.
     
  18. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    Well sure, except on jam you have 8 simultaneously accessible strums and fx to manipulate. I don’t entirely disagree with you though. Mk3 crammed enough jam features inside to make it arguably the only maschine box you need.

    Also, jam has a really nice ableton map - to be fair. It could go with you on vacation to the Virgin Islands and allow control over maschine and ableton.
     
  19. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I see... the MK3 mapping template is still unfinished compared with the Maschine Studio for example.
     
  20. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    I could probably live with just push 2 running audiomodder for my K11u, maschine and maschine expansions - but fuggit. ;)