Solved Ableton Live 11 needs a new Midi Scripts for Maschine Controllers

Looks like the excuse about Ableton needing to do something on their end to make the mk3 script work again was BS though. Called it.

 

There are several things that do not work on MASCHINE MK2 besides << DEV button on DEVICE page
1. DEVICE PAGE - <<TRCK and TRCK>>. buttons also don't work (selecting tracks left and right). ,also mentioned in earlier posts << DEV button
2.PAD MODE - Holding SAMPLING button(CLEAR/DELETE) and pressing pad with midi data on it would delete all notes on that pad , now doesn't work anymore
3.CLEAR AUTOMATION PARAMETERS - in page 55 of Ableton Live Template manual it's stated that you can delete specific automation by holding SAMPLING button(CLEAR/DELETE) and twisting knobs of automated parameters . This also didn't work on Ableton 10.
Everthing else functions normally I think

 

That's all fine, although it's really still quite limited - I can do most of that stuff just as easily with a mouse. And with Ableton 10 there was a script/template that while it wasn't perfect, I could maneuver Ableton quickly, and play drums on the pads instead of on a keyboard, which is what I've been doing since Live 11 came out. I think that type of integration would only be good for NI - but it seems like NI just wants us to use their software - which is far inferior to their hardware, not to mention Ableton's software.

Any thoughts, Matt or Jeremy?

 

Totally agree!
My unofficial script for MIKRO MK3 (which works for MK3 too) has such features that were previously on the "Legacy" script and much more new features and integration.
If I could have had the MK3 too, I would've developed another separate script based off the MIKRO MK3 one, plus with new additions for screens, 8x Encoders and 8x Square buttons (and other buttons, not present in the MIKRO).

Feel free to check it out:
https://www.native-instruments.com/...midi-remote-script-mas-mk3-compatible.449377/

Sorry if this sounded like an advertisement.

-Elton

 

True, but even a limited set of physical controls is still better than using a mouse, and depending on how your studio is set up, you can put the mk3 in a place where your screen/mouse are off to the side and awkward to use.

Of course, a more full-featured remote script would be a lot nicer. It's a shame they're not motivated to make one, because the mk3 pads are really great. I have a Push 2, which is obviously much better for controlling Ableton Live, but the pads are nowhere near as good for playing drums. But you can just make a simple MIDI template for that.

 

I just want to say how impressive that Remote Script is, and how even more impressive it is that you've developped it on your own on the side.

Other than that, I would genuinely love some more thourough explanations from Matt @ NI or Jeremy @ NI about why the new "remote script" (which it really isn't) is only sticking to what was previously already a bit of a puzzling choice to only make it control the Ableton mixer.

I think we're all conscious here that the strength of Maschine as a controller are its capacity to be a terrific hardware interface for beat sequencing (and harmonic sequecing with a focus on rhytmic/sample mangling aspects). Knowing that, having a remote script for a software like Ableton (also a great beat/harmonic sequencing tool especially through its drum racks) that turns the Maschine MK3 into... a mixer is probably the worse possible use case for the given set of hardware features and buttons provided by the MK3 as a controller. No use for the pads which are the main selling point. No control of automations. No use for the group tabs. No use for 80% of the well labelled buttons when they all have an equivalent in Ableton they could be linked to. No use for the touchstrip. Basically everything that makes Maschine great, all the bells and whistles of the controller, have no use in the Ableton 11 (and 10 before that) integration/remote script. In a way, my simple Launchcontrol with a remote script and nothing more than a set of 16 knobs and 8 pads is more suited to be a Mixer because it has two rows of 8 knobs for pan and volume which makes much more sense than having to switch controls, and dedicated color-coded lit/unlit buttons for track mute/solo. And it's got 1/6th of the footprint of the Maschine on the desk. Yes there's no screen (more or less the only added advantage of the MK3 over the launchcontrol) but it's not a big problem I have a screen on my computer.

So having a huge a luxury controller like Maschine only act as an Ableton mixer when they share so much common DNA is a choice I really can't explain (even more so since Maschine Jam has been discontinued, at least before that I felt it could mean NI wanted to sell the Jam as the potential Ableton controller and making a Maschine MK3 script for that as well would have been competition from within... I guess).

This has been exemplified by both the older Legacy Script that we used to have for controlling Ableton until version 10 in a more full fledged way (which actually goes to show that NI knows perfectly well what a good Ableton Remote Script could look like since... they've done it before), and even more so by the absolutely incredible integration made by Elton Memishaj for the Maschine Micro MK3, which covers pretty much all the points I'm making above.

I hope the reason this didn't happen yet isn't that NI feels that making an actually efficient remote script for Ableton would somehow be competition for their own Maschine software because that would be a very sad explanation for it.

The reason I'm writing all this is because I was really holding my breath for the new Ableton 11 remote script, because two things got me hoping : First, the fact that the update took a bit longer than for the other controllers led me to believe this was because we'd get an actually improved and more full featured version, more in line maybe with this incredible Bitwig integration :

Second, because I thought maybe Native Instrument would realize that since we do not have access to the legacy scripts anymore to circumvent the lack of an actual officially updated Remote Script, they would offer a script that answer to that need again.

I guess I got a bit too hyped for this, but now I'm left with so many questions as to why things went that way, and I would love to know, as someone who has used NI's products quite a lot over the years, what are the reasoning behind making the Maschine MK3 Ableton 11 remote script just a simple mixer with nothing that takes advantage of what Maschine MK3 actually is as a controller.

 

Thank you a ton for your feedback and appreciation!

I really appreciate and agree with your opinions. We all got a bit hyped for this official script. I got disappointed as well. I really hope Native Instruments will do something about this.

Code-wise, the Legacy Script for Live 10 that NI built, has a lot of code, compared to MK3 Live 11 script released by NI some days ago. The Python 2 -> Python 3 transition wouldn't be too smooth.
I faced a lot of problems and time consuming bugs, limitations, back in the day, but, I was all on my own.
An experienced coding team like NI MASCHINE team would perform better.

Fingers-crossed

 

I am trully puzzled to be honest. The reason I'm asking at all (because it's been on my mind for as long as I had the controller) now is because I remember Matt @ NI saying they were going to try to be more open about developpement and communicate more with the community etc. in the future, and I thought this was typically one of those things where the choices made are so weird (I litterally know of absolutely no one using Ableton and happy with those decisions) that the community would love at least some insight as to why things were decided that way.

Even if it's just to say "we'll never get this done and we won't explain why", at least I'd stop hoping and maybe I'd just get a Push 2 instead or something. But I still like Maschine a lot as a controller, so I keep hoping to be able to control Ableton with it the way it used to, and maybe let's be crazy with some more features/screen usage more inline with the pretty mixer thing we got, except for more useful purposes.

Right now it's... just really puzzling.

 

Matt @ NI or Jeremy @ NI I didn't think you'd reply to me but I'd really like to see some transparency now.

 

Jumping on here just to clarify a couple of things before the week starts again.
Jeremy @ NI and I aren't the ones deciding what goes into a script and what doesn't so we'll need a bit more time to actually get that information back to everyone. Please understand that if we take one or two days to answer, it doesn't necessarily mean more than that.

On a more personal note, we both put a lot of efforts into sharing as much as we can here and answer to everyone. It's not an easy task since there's a lot of topics happening at the same time. For our intention about this community to be (sort of) questioned because a decision is not in sync with your immediate expectation is really not the way.

Anyway, it's on my calendar for tomorrow and more information will be shared asap

 

Just to be absolutely clear, (in case this comment was about my previous posts) I wasn't questioning your intentions rather than welcoming them. I've seen you mentioning a change of policy towards what happens on the forums and how to harness the knowledge and feedback generated there, and I think it's great you're willing to be a relay between the exec/dev team and this place and if it can help bring some clarity over the course of the next months/years, it'll be immensely useful to users, even if the final answer isn't what we expect, it doesn't matter in the slightest. Ultimately there's a proposition and we can choose if it suits us or not and that's fine

I think most frustration expressed here comes from the fact that there used to be a substantial amount of features available (and well made at that!), and now there's not which means in a sense we're left with a tool now that works less with Ableton than it did around 10 years ago. If it never had been there I think there wouldn't be confusion/frustration at all and we'd all treat Maschine as a sort of standalone thing locked to its software that just isn't meant to interract with other offers.

Anyhow, I would never point fingers at people I don't know, and I think it's great you're there to answer our questions when you can and relay them when you can't, even if it's every few weeks. Thanks for passing by.

 

I agree with your frustration statement. It's always a bit frustrating when you're offered a certain feature set and over time features get taken away without a clear answer. I bought my MK3 the month it dropped because I assumed (never assume features before a purchase, it's a bad move) it would have an Ableton script like the previous models but didn't see one till 2 years later and it was quite limited compared to the previous versions. More or less it's 4 years now of frustration spilling over for some people. I'd settle for the limited version again if it worked for Live 11, but the Integration Mixer definitely wasn't what I was looking for personally so again another frustration.

To Matt @ NI and Jeremy @ NI , none of my complaints are personally towards either of you. You guys are in a tough spot being messengers getting shot at, and I appreciate that you guys give us whatever info you can knowing you may receive unsavory responses. My complaints are more directed at the direction of the Maschine line in general, which I know isn't any one person's decision. This just happens to be the only void we can yell at where some sort of response may appear.

Either way, I'm really hoping that NI has some good stuff for us soon.

 

It wasn't necessarily pointed at anyone in particular but I still feel this is often a trend here. In this particular case, I admit I was excited to get the script and we didn't think about going over the feature set in details and how it might be a step backward for a lot of you. I'm pretty sure there's an actual explanation for it but I wanna make sure I have the picture right before making any comments.

In any case, I really appreciate the level of details you put in your first post and that's exactly what we need to get the conversation going

 

I just want to know why MK3 users get a gimp legacy script.

 

No matter how much you dislike my posts, it's not gonna get you what you want to know any faster.

 

haha! nice, well as much as you'd like to embarrass me, I'm on my way out of this NI BS anyhow. Just wanted an answer is all, I spent a ton of money with you folks and if this is how you represent, then cya

 

Are you even reading my posts? I literally said I need to get some clarification over the topic and I will write back as soon as I can.

 

First of all thanks for updating the scripts for Live 11 ...
I have one bug with the Maschine JAM: When I enter the step sequencer, the pads representing the drum pads in a drum rack are "all over the place". I noticed that they actually trigger the drum pads that belong to the configured notes in the controller editor template, as if the script "forgets" to engage. However, when I switch from Step mode to PAD mode and back again, the pads trigger the drumrack pads visible on the screen in the Drum Rack as desired and it also works to navigate up and down on the controller.
But this happens every time when entering the step sequencer.
So there is a workaround, but it is a bit annoying to stumble over it in a creativity flow.

Activating Step Mode and lowest four pads pressed on the JAM:


Switched to PAD mode and back to STEP mode:

 

Yes, i've exaclty the same malfunctions with the ableton live 11 Maschine MK2 script!! (thanks Milos for your post) WE INSIST!
Please N.I can you fix it quickly ?! I can make some good device automations directly into maschine controller, and without mouse: boring, boring!
Everybody, any solutions to do that ? Is it in the config file (for NI controller editor), or is it in the python file ??
Best,

 

Putting this in here as think it might be missed in the other thread.

Regarding the Mk3 script, I think I've found a bug. Holding mute and pressing one of the top buttons above the mixer tracks toggles track mutes but not group mutes. It mutes groups but doesn't unmute them. Anyone else?

Not sure if this was the behaviour in Live 10 as I only used the 'legacy' script there as it's so much fuller featured. Sorry to say (again)! :/ Either way, it doesn't work as you'd hope.