Ableton Live vs. Logic Pro

Hi folks.

I'm trying to decide which DAW I should get. My work is largely compositions, generated via MIDI... I'm not recording guitars or singing.

Of the choices available the two that seem to get most votes are Live and Logic. I have to say I don't like Live's UI at all. Also in favour of Logic is that it seems to be good at recording MIDI and showing it as musical notation. That would be interesting to me.

One thing I am not sure Logic will do is host Kore 2 across multiple CPU's which I am told Ableton will handle.

Does anyone have any advice to offer me about which DAW I should get?

Thanks.

Matt

 

Hi..I can't advise you..I use both..It really depends on you..Both have differing advantages..And also weaknesses..

Go here to get a better view of what Live has to offer if you dig in.. http://www.cosm.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70&Itemid=95 ..Check out TC..

You can download a demo of Live to check things out..

You can not in anyway download a version of Logic to check it out..

Again..Take your time and decide for yourself..Then live with that descion...That's were it all begins in the end anyway you cut it.. JON

 

I have the demo version of Ableton which is how I know I don't care for the user interface very much.

And this is the problem. It's hard to decide when I can try Ableton but not Logic. Hence why I was asking people for their opinions, given the criteria I offered about what I think is important.

Maybe you could at least tell me if Logic is capable of balancing multiple instances of Kore as an instrument across multiple CPU's?

Regards,

Matt

 

for composition i would go with cubase, logic or performer ... all have their drawbacks n advantages, all will crash on you at some point or infuriate you with some bugs n performance problems. the instruments in Logic are better than in the others i think, although if you're into electronic music, the Ableton Live Suite instruments are cool as well ...

For notation, midi editing and processing, and general routing i think cubase is still far ahead of the others. working with VST instruments is much better handled in cubase as well. both steinberg and apple are not very customer friendly and will let you hang out to dry without bugfixes for ages .. Ableton have been very helpfull and reactive in the past years and there are a number of workaround solutions via config scripts and quite frequent updates.

if you're at any point planning to play live with a DAW, then Live is your only serious choice.

concerning the performance you will hear almost any variation of which DAW runs more tracks or plugins on the net ... don't believe the hype ... these softs are all great tools , choose the tool you 'like' most and take it from there ... it's a bit like choosing between Mercedes, BMW and Audi ..

 

I hear a lot of negativity about Cubase, in fact you're the first person I've come across with anything good to say about it ;-)

I'm not so much worried about the quality of instruments that come with the DAW since I plan on buying Komplete 5 at some point and between Acoustik Piano and Kontakt's VSL library I think I should have some nice instruments.

As someone not new to Apple products I hear you about the bugs.

I'm not but, if I change my mind, I understand that it's possible to use something called 'rewire' to hook up Live under Logic somehow.

Right. I guess my problem is that my lack of experience means it's hard for me to judge what is important to me.

From what you've send I tend to stick to the view that Logic Express is a good option for me and is not so expensive that changing my mind at some future point is an utter disaster.

Thanks.

Matt

 

Hi..Logic Pro8 ...Not exspress...If youy are serious,there is no reason not get LP8..You would do better to define what you mean by compositions..Unfortuanately that give no hint at your needs..

I hope you followed the link about Live above..

Here are some free videos about Logic.. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=SFLogicNinja

I don't know if they will be of help..Hopefully..

Le8 is much better than Le7 was...That said the advantages of LP8 are still worth the extra $$$... JON

 

Making music has become my hobby so I'm not serious in the sense of "make a living", "be a professional", etc... I am however very interested, willing to put a lot of spare time & cash into it, learning, playing, enjoying, ...

By "composition" I meant that I am experimenting with composing music at the level of assembling, and modifying, patterns of notes to find something interesting. I'm doing this using a generative MIDI sequencing application I wrote.

I like the idea of being able to see that stream of notes in Logic as musical notation so that as I learn more about reading music I can feed that knowledge back into the creation process. Also to be able to manipulate, then play through Kore experimenting with different instruments and sounds.

This last is my main reason for looking at a DAW. At the moment I go direct from Elysium (my app) to Kore giving me very little ability to reproduce a composition or alter it.

I'm sorry if I'm not describing my needs very clearly but I am, as I say, a beginner and I don't clearly understand them myself.

Regards,

Matt

 

don't get me wrong about cubase ... i HATE steinberg, their attitude towards their customers doesn't cease to amaze me and other long term users ... but in all fairness, Cubase 4.2 is still a hell of a DAW (when it works that is) and does things in a way that i personnaly find more straightforward and practical, but maybe it's just because i'm so used to it having worked with it for 10 years or so .. i've ditched Cubase for composition for Logic about a year ago and there are things in Logic which seriously go on my nerves, i'm also not impressed about the performance on my system ... but then again, as i said, these are just tools, i tend not to worry so much about which tool ... it's a bit like a good guitarist can make an old half broken guitar sound good where a bad guitarist sounds like **** even on a PRS private stock

most people i know who like me have worked with DAWs since they came out have switched several times and now use all of them intermittently .. i have hundreds of cubase file which i'm too lazy to convert to Logic, Live or any other system .. so i work on my old tunes in Cubase, make new ones in Logic or Live and work on Performer or Protools from time to time with friends ... what i need as a composer i find in all DAWs, create tracks, load some VSTis, record midi, eq, comp, fx, mix, bounce ... they pretty much all do it .. i find most of the 'killer features' introduced in the more recent versions pretty lame, unhelpfull or even counterproductive

in any case, if you want proper soundprocessing plugs you have to buy some which will cost more than your DAW, just like sounds (Komplete is great) so really what you want from a DAW i a solid shell to do arranging, routing an mixing in a way that favours your workflow and creative process.

concerning Logic, i bought Logic Studio but don't use any of the extra stuff that comes with studio (i think), not sure what the limitations are with the express version.

i think junkuzma's idea of watching videos about the different daw's is a good one, it sometimes gives you a better idea of a soft than workin with it.

 

Oh I missed the link to those videos, thanks for those I shall definitely watch them!

Regards,

Matt
---

Someone pointed me at a post that lists the differences between LE8 and LP8.

Generally, given that I have Kore 2 and intend to get Komplete 5, I wasn't worried about losing the instruments or effects.

Other than that it seems to be studio related stuff that I suspect isn't revelant to me.

That said we're only talking about £150 price difference. But still, I can put that toward Komplete 5 or something else so I'd rather not buy LP unless there was really something there for me.

Regards,

Matt.

 

Hi Matt..Just came in from a freezing day at the top of a 40 foot ladder..Le8 and LP8 differ as you know from the chart..However,how could anyone know what those differences mean without prior knowledge..

OK then..Convolution reverb,,a delay unit with over 40 taps,each one with it's own filter etc..Sculpture,a physical modeling synth,,Not totally open ended but massive..Also the vintage selection of instruments such as an electric piano,clav,organ..

Then there are the jampacks,,,I don't use them in regards to loops..That said however they are similar to the kore soundpacks is so much as they add additional "Instruments" NOT just loops,so many more sounds to choose from..There are other features also but outside the scope of this..

Kore works very well with Logic8..

The one thing about Logic is it's depth..If you go the exspress or Pro version..PLEASE..do yourself a favour and buy a book..The reference manuals are great..But you will be for the most part lost from square one reliant upon them..

Go to logicprohelp.com ..There you will find a link to a book by the moderator...If you go logic,no matter which version..It is an essential part of learning....Also macprovideos ..has a tutorial about Kore which is also worth purchasing,no matter which DAW you settle on..

Go and watch the tutorial excerpts..JON

 

That almost certainly begs an explanation... ;-)

You give a lot of good advice there, thanks.

I wanted to buy the Kore videos from MacPro but was put off by the DRM requirement. I get a bit funny about video content that's DRM'd which is maybe a little hypocritical given that Kore is also DRM'd.

My inclination, since I think you can upgrade for the difference in cost, is still to go for LE8 and put the difference towards my purchase of Komplete 5.

I suspect what's in LE will be quite enough for me to get started with and will answer my major need which is a way to visualize and manipulate the MIDI I am generating before routing it to Kore.

And thanks for the confirmation that Kore works well in LE8, that's reassuring.

Whatever I choose I will definitely get a book. My experience with the Ableton trial edition told me that DAW's are complicated and to expect to just sit down and know what you're doing is misguided.

Thanks again.

Matt

 

Hi Matt. Whatever you choose..All the best..Make music..It doesn't matter if it is your profeesion..It just matters that it is your passion..JON

 

Hey Matt,

I am a long-time Logic user, but recently jumped into Ableton Live, and have been very happy with it. One thing about the UI, at first I didn't really "get" the session view, but after spending some time with it I've concluded it's actually very powerful.

Have a look at the videos on Ableton's site, they'll give you a pretty good overview of features unique to Live.
http://www.ableton.com/movies

Also search for Live on Vimeo.com, there are some pretty interesting tutorials on there.


Some things that Live includes that have no real counterpart in Logic are:
1. Session view & Follow actions
2. Instrument racks and drum racks
3. Clip automation (leaves Logic's automation in the dust IMO)
4. Midi output from VSTi's can be routed to other instruments (not possible in Logic)
5. Elastic audio
6. Midi effects ( OK I know Logic has a arpeggiator, but could it be any less user friendly to set up?)


That said, I think Logic is a great program, it just seems more "conventional" than Live... Live seems encourage experimentation.

On the other hand, Logic has much vaster library of instruments. Most of the instruments in Live has to be purchased as add-ons.

And of course, both programs are capable of great results in the hands of a creative user. I guess in the long run. you could buy one now and add the other to your arsenal down the road...no law against having both, right?

I'd be interested in hearing more about this "generative midi sequencing application" of yours. Post back with details!

And best of luck in your musical endeavors, whichever tool you end up choosing.

 

I've spoken to quite a few people now and gotten the impression that Live and Logic are both great products, that for where I am Logic probably makes more sense right now, but that in future I could rewire Live if I need it.

For that reason I picked up Logic Studio yesterday. It comes with a mammoth 1000+ page user guide that I've started browsing but I am also ordering a book by one of the guys from the Logic Pro Help forum.

Yep no question Live sounds like a great product. One thing that definitely swung me toward Logic was support for musical notation which is pretty important to me as I learn to sight-read music and experiment with the fundamentals of what I am producing (rather than experimenting with the sound, per se).

Yep. That's the conclusion I have come to. I doubt I will push the boundaries of Logic any time soon and, when I do, I'll figure out my next step

Sure I was inspired by two things, a video of an instrument called the [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AklKy2NDpqs"]reacTogon[/ame] by Mark Burton and a conference talk by fellow MIDI hacker (of much longer standing) Giles Bowkett.

The result is Elysium which allows you to visually design dynamic structures that generate MIDI to be played. Here is a screencast of (a somewhat out of date version) of Elysium at play:

http://vimeo.com/1693400

I've posted some tracks I made while messing around with some recent builds of Elysium.

Giles also posted about Elysium yesterday.

I plan to release Elysium as an open source application in the near future.

Thank you!

Regards,

Matt