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Adjacent Keys

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DJEndo, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    Hey All,

    I wanted to start a conversation about the Adjacent Keys. I'm seeing a lot of uncommon key combinations showing up in the Adjacent Keys that I don't think should be showing up.

    Generally what I would want to show up as "Adjacent" (aka keys that aren't compatible, but are 'other' options) would be keys that are a HALF STEP UP, and a WHOLE STEP UP. Besides that I think all the other keys, besides the compatible keys, should not be highlighted.

    Here is an example, and forgive me for using Camelot Key notation, but that's what I use.

    MASTER DECK = E minor (9A)
    KEY HIGHLIGHTING is set to "Also Color Adjacent Keys"

    The Keys that are showing up are:
    Compatible Keys: Am (8A) , Em (9A) , G (9B), Bm (10A) - This is good!
    Adjacent Keys: Abm (1A), Ebm (2A), Gb (2B), Bbm (3A), Fm (4A), Ab (4B), Cm (5A)

    What should show up for Adjacent Keys should be Fm (4A), F#m (11A). There also may be some minor to major modulations that I honestly don't know about, but I would get rid of Abm, Ebm, Gb, Bbm, Ab, and Cm. You don't want people going DOWN a half step since that can be a very awkward mix and kill the vibe.

    So I think we should re-tune the Adjacent key system. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Friedemann @ NI

    Friedemann @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    842
    Hey Mike,

    thanks for kicking this off.

    I assume you misinterpreted the meaning of "Adjacent" keys, which means that the name is badly chosen.

    We did not intend to highlight "keys that aren't compatible, but are 'other' options"
    With "Adjacent Keys" we intend to highlight "keys that are compatible if tuned half semi-tone up or down with the new buttons in the key lock widget.
    These keys are therefore musically "adjacent" to the compatible keys as they are one semitone above or below them.

    How would you name them to avoid the confusion with the "second-best-compatible keys"?
     
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  3. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    Hey Friedemann, thanks for the clarification. Honestly, for me, I would take that out altogether. I don't know any DJs who pitch their tracks up or down a semitone when they are harmonic mixing except in the rare case when you're making a mixtape, and you have that one track that just won't fit in the mix, but you need it to. Also, a lot of our hardware doesn't have the option to easily change keys like that so it requires you having to do it manually with a mouse, which I don't think a lot of people would use honestly. You might know more about the user statistics in this manner, but I would change adjacent keys to "Key Modulations" and add half step up or whole step up to the key modulations list and remove the whole "Adjacent Keys" idea altogether.

    Where Adjacent Keys is useful to me is when you're NOT using Key Lock. Then it comes in handy. This, for me, would be an under the hood thing though. When you pitch a track up +6%, it's in a new key that is a half step up. In this case, the browser would highlight the tracks that are compatible with the playing track if they were beatmatched together and if the other deck had key lock off. Does this make sense?

    So basically it would calculate the new key of the track that's playing without key lock off, and it would calculate the key of the tracks in the browser if they were beatmatched with the playing tracks, then it would show you the tracks that would be compatible if beatmatched, with key lock off.

    This brings me back to this article I wrote about ten years ago. :)

    http://blog.dubspot.com/harmonic-mixing-pt-2-relative-key-mixing-without-key-lock/
     
  4. Friedemann @ NI

    Friedemann @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    842
    Hey Mike,

    with the new Deck Header value "Resulting Key" you can at least already see the resulting key in the notation of your choice (plus the current detune in cents). But you are right - coupling this to the browser highlight could be very interesting.

    Regarding your dislike of the Adjacent Keys the idea came up in a few recent conversations. We don't have any data yet and hope to know more soon about the interest in this features as this betatest and this conversations goes on.
     
  5. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    Thanks, Friedemann. If possible, I think it would be good to get statistics on how many people adjust the key knob. My prediction is that not many people use it, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. The Adjacent Keys idea is good in theory, but I think it will confuse a lot of people. I think Key Modulations would be much more useful when talking about which keys would be highlighted in the browser. By key Modulations, I mean keys that are a half step or a whole step up (not down).
     
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  6. kedzobj

    kedzobj New Member

    Messages:
    4
    I use the key knob to pitch tracks up and down a semitone all the time. I'm mostly playing open-format and quick mixing, so sometimes I can't mix in key. Super nice to have the browser helping make those additional connections for me.

    I also look for adjacent keys when I'm making combining instrumentals and acapellas. Super helpful to be able to see the additional options when pairing those up. I almost always leave key lock on, so what I'm speaking to is a bit different than Mike's point above.
     
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  7. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    All great points. You're right, it's great for matching acapella to instrumentals, and I can see how it can be handy for open format as well. A lot of hardware doesn't have dedicated key control in their factory mappings, but you can always map that.

    I guess I did misinterpret what "Adjacent Keys" are, and my first thought was that these are Modulations (half step or whole step up), and didn't realize they are keys that are compatible if tuned half semi-tone up or down with the new buttons in the key lock widget.
     
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  8. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    On a related note, I'm trying to figure out what the key colors mean when they are turned on. Is there any system or do the keys each have their own dedicated color?

    For me, it would make sense to color code the key *relationship* between the master deck's current key and the key of the songs in the browser. For example, songs that are in compatible keys are always blue. Songs that need +1 key change are another color, and songs that need -1 key change are in another color. This color coding system would stay consistent. I don't think color coding the actual keys makes sense in this context anymore personally.

    The colors would also represent the relationship from the current key of the master track (i.e., if it's pitched up, it would show the compatibilities to the current key, not the original track.)


    Hopefully, that makes sense.
     
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  9. mr.Positive

    mr.Positive NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    68
    I would not wan't to have highlighted tracks that needs to by pitched.
    So i think best way would be to split it and change select to checkboxes:
    - Compatible Keys
    - Next Best Keys (+7 /-7)
    - Near Keys (this semitone up and down)

    And other checkbox (or maybe here select would be better)
    - "Use current key of master tracks" vs "use base key of master track"
     
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  10. DJEndo

    DJEndo NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    176
    Checkboxes would definitely be ideal.

    - Compatible Keys
    - Modulation Keys (+2, +7, Minor to Major or Major to Minor)
    - Adjacent Keys (to mean they would need to be pitched up or down 1 semitone to reach the key)

    And you can select a combination of 1, or all 3.

    Add to that "Hide Played Tracks" checkbox, and that would be the best scenario for me!
     
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  11. mr.Positive

    mr.Positive NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    68
    +1000 on hide played tracks (or just make them whole very very dark)
     
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  12. Friedemann @ NI

    Friedemann @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    842
    The color coding in TRAKTOR is not relative but absolute : keys match if their colors match - this is the same for the Camelot notation.
     
  13. Scratch-E Con

    Scratch-E Con NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    219
    In addition to this it would be nice to also set a BPM range for highlighted tracks. For me it's no use to highlight tunes with >10% deviation for example.

    Nice feature BTW!
     
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  14. Friedemann @ NI

    Friedemann @ NI NI Team NI Team

    Messages:
    842
    Thank you for the input. We're going to keep this in mind for a future update in the Browser domain.
     
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  15. radiokrishna

    radiokrishna NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    102
    And what about the option to highlight Advanced Harmonic Mixing Techniques? Like this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. snowseals

    snowseals NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    68
    Harmonic-&-Modulation-Key-wheel---gray-edition---top---A---vector-2017-example.png Harmonic-&-Modulation-Key-wheel---gray-edition---top---B---vector-2017-example.png Harmonic-&-Modulation-overview---Major-keys-example.png Harmonic-&-Modulation-overview---Minor-keys-example.png
     
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  17. velit

    velit NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    34
    snowseals playing now 12B Track +3 making 3B

    You writing 4B Why ?
     
  18. snowseals

    snowseals NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    68
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  19. wayfinder

    wayfinder NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    61
    I'm having trouble with this feature since Traktor will only color all keys for me; if I set it to matching or adjacent, nothing will be colored. I gather this is because I have made my global tempo master, not one of the decks. I get that it's more difficult to determine which color to use as a reference for matches when no one deck is master and multiple may be playing in different keys. But you can do it with keyboard focus, and you could use that info. Or perhaps a global key could be introduced along with the existing global tempo? I don't know, but you're not out of options!