After AL10, NI should be open about 3.0 roadmap

Also a forum is a public place for open debates.. no one not even power hungy Mods should set rules for a debate.. I paid for the hardware so i have a right to express which every way i feel.. u can ban me for life it would bother me i run 3 sites myself and it troubles me on how some of the mods act.. instead of doing research and getting knowledgeable answers. You tell us how to speak on an open forum then limit posts.. is this America..remember NI needs use we dont need them ...

 

You are still not getting the point... You can say whatever you want, you're entitled to your opinion but you have to be mature and polite about it, no need to insult anyone in the process or open a bunch of threads saying the same thing in a short time span. Following the rules is also a good practice. If you still don't get it then lets just end the debate here as this is common sense for me and i don't really want to start any drama.

 

Please read again what D-One wrote:

So please don't come in here acting like we censor the forum. We created the general forums so there is room to discuss non-NI products, see your own MPC thread.

But more importantly we we don't have fanboy moderators, our mods also critique NI, there are more than enough good examples of this in the Maschine subforum.

 

I don't know - seeing that guitar pose avatar on numerous occasions a day in threads with titles, that absolutely won't surprise me, what I will read in the following, isn't, what I would call silent.

I'm sure you can express your opinion, as well as share your invaluable experience in the beta forum. However, I don't know, if you can post snarky gifs there & collect likes.

I guess, the ones, who have signed up there, can express their opinion here as well, but maybe only slightly more informed, because they know, what's going on and why. And it doesn't mean they have to like or condone it either. There are people here, who do beta tests, but don't sing NI's song in public here - they keep on criticising. The claim, that the beta-test has been extended only to shut people up is ridiculous.

As someone who has experience with QA and testing, you will know, that, generally, an extended circle of users leads to more precise data, which can be used to improve the product. And, as we have learnt, it is a job, noone wants to do, so you'd need even more people. But, of course, it's all a plot to silence people. I'm this close to imagining, you might be already folding a tinfoil hat - sorry!

I don't see any agenda on NI's side to shut people up, but I have a hard time not to see things like this as an agenda to blame NI for personal gratification and to get public confirmation. You've made the really honourable attempt to create a list with long-standing bugs, but just because NI did not react to that, as you might have hoped, it doesn't justify that constant complaining, while at the same time refusing to work in the beta tests. In simple words: you actually don't know jack, but beat a pretty loud drum at the same time. I'm really sorry, that it's impossible for me to sugar-coat it. I'm sure, it doesn't matter to you, whether I take you seriously or not, but perhaps you'd like others to do that.

(For the record - I do - where I can - but things like this make it quite difficult.)

 

NDA is standard practice if you want to do closed testing, but like I say it cuts out any public debate. I don't see any NI conspiracy, all I see is a lack of delivery, and yes a conversation about the bugs that got posted would have been nice.. but whatever.

The rest of your arguements are hyperbole and incorrect assumptions about my motivations. I will be doing a sponsored moanathon next year btw.

[Insert snarky GIF here]

 

...you're correct - it is my interpretation of hypocrisy. Nobody has to agree with that, but anybody, who spends enough time in this forum, can get his own impression about what the majority of the last three years of these almost 4.000 post is.

 

I don’t think we can expect a business, small or large, to share their long term game plan when that information will prove valuable to their competitors. These are usually well guarded secrets.

However, NI has already done a good job of providing both subtle and not so subtle hints right here on the forum about what they are focusing on at the moment. They’ve done that in addition to several invitations to join the beta program. I can understand people’s apprehension over an NDA but that for the most part covers you discussing the specifics of what they’re actively doing. It does not take away your right to express your displeasure with what’s not working for you in regard to the software.

I have not been on here waiting for certain features for 8 years. However, I can understand how frustrating that is for those who have been waiting. If it were a relationship, I’m sure I would leave but it’s not my place to tell anyone to move on (I wouldn’t want anyone telling me that either after everything invested). I think the negative back and forth exchanges on here only stir the pot and brings tempers to the surface, especially when those who have been waiting think they are being ridiculed for expressing their discontent. Regardless of where you fall on the matter, I think being civil with one another goes a long way in the expression and reception of our opinions.

If there’s one thing I can tell from those of you who have been holding on that long, it’s that you are patient. My subtle suggestion would be to join the beta program, if not for the sake of actively participating, at least to know what is coming. It would certainly help to know the bus is running and what route it plans to take if you’re already sitting at the bus stop... It may make the wait a little less arduous too. I do not believe that takes away your right to voice your opinion here. All knowledge that is already publicly disseminated is open for discussion. Just my tiny thoughts on the matter.

 

I was being mature and i dont have to be polite we should be adults.. insulted @ D One... i believe my past post where geared to the mk3 and how people where complaining ib the past about the software and where being suckers for buying another controller with pretty lights..

personally i dont post here anymore... when the new software comeout and its free then i will use it but i have not powered on studio since September.. great features but dissapointing updates after another.. then bam new controller coming out let promote it instead of fixing past controllers.. again i started a thread a few years ago about routing.. took alot of crap for it even had a developer here said couldnt be done then a year later its here.. but i guess im insulting people that dony know what they are talking about.. if i pay for it i have to the right to say what ever i want .. again i can post anywhere else my feelings.. this site has turned in to mods defending other mods.. good day and thanks for the 800 second post ban .. who is acting mature now....

 

@certifiedbeatz There are thousands of users here and only you are the only one complaining that you are censored and cant say what you want.. yet here you are saying it, repeatedly... Again debating this with you leads nowhere, you keep mixing different topics, so will just stop replying.

I think that only makes sense if you have features/plans that no one else has. If its something truly innovative keeping it secret makes a lot of sense but the main issues... timestretch, performance recording, workflow tweaks, etc... Whats the point of hiding that? It's everywhere...

 

I suggest you stop acting like the victim. You have been asked to talk politely towards other members, thats all.
You have never been censored, you can have all the critique that you want, as long as you bring it in a normal, polite way.

 

I suppose, if everyone does the "same", then it's not the "what", it's the "how". Using them as an example: Bitwig Studio and Live are both DAWs, which share a very similar approach and, yet, are designed very differently. So with both fishing in the same waters, it can make a consinderable difference, how their features are executed. And, as we've seen the praise for the workflow enhancements of Live 10, such things do. So it's probably not about who has the best feature, but more about which DAW's feature can be used best. And with the whole software/hardware-combo still being relatively new, I can understand, that Ableton and NI aren't very open about how they'll employ their controllers for new workflows and try not to give the other competitor any ideas.

I haven't tried Push in a while, but I think, it's still rather an extention for Live and the main tool for operating the program is still the mouse. Whereas Maschine is much more focussed on the controller or some tasks can't even be done without it, respectively. So, as an example, not as a speculation: If I was NI and found cool ways to use a controller for things, that were previoulsy done via the mouse, I would be silent about that until the release as well. It would be an advantage over the competitors and it would be the result of extensive testing & experimenting. That costs something and you wouldn't trumpet that to the public.

So that would be one example, why I can understand that they are all quite tight-lipped.

 

20k per infraction. I’m not going to risk that with no benefit in my side other than the privilege of being a free QA engineer.

It is a very retarded agreement actually, in other NDAs you are responsible for the damage value that a court judge evaluate, not a random predefined number on their side that can destroy your life forever.

Anyways this is way offtopic, since NI people is here I would like to know if NI is going to update what they are doing soon, or I can save some time and order Live 10 and Push 2 already.

 

Everything you wrote I would agree with if this was a normal situation but it isn't.

Years and years fly by and what people have been asking for has fallen of deaf ears. Things then got rather shtty here and eventually NI wrote a letter and hallaylooyaa it seemed we were back on track as long as we were patient. But we weren't. More years fly by. Now it's full circle and it feels like very little has happened. Patience has run out. Nutters like me are still here, the rest have given up. The fanboys and the newbies don't see the issue as per usual. There you go.

 

@loachm Oh... I get it now. You're talking about the implementation of the features, not the feature themselves.
Implementation is dependent on the how the hardware/software is built and works so it might not always make sense to keep it hush, hush...
I think there is also some marketing involved, because if people are surprised they are more likely to talk about it, make videos, share on social media etc... that's important nowadays. If everyone knows everything way ahead of time it affects the drop day a bit... I'm no marketing expert though.

That makes sense... Yeah, like I said if its something "new" it totally makes sense. I really doubt big companies don't ways to infiltrate each other and know about the general dev of their competitors though, but then again, maybe I've watched too many episodes of Mr Robot
Maschine, MPC, Push etc.. all take inspiration from each other.

 

I do not think anyone expect detailed implementation details or even screenshot, but dropping roadmap milestones like “Maschine 2.9 with song layer is expected to be ready in Q1 2018” or “Maschine 3.0 with X and Y is planned for Q3 2018” is not going to give the competitor any advantage, in case Ableton does not care what NI is doing then is irrelevant to share that info, in case Ableton cares then they possibly have access to the beta (directly ot indirectly) already. So again, what NI is trying to achieve with their lack of communication? the only thing they are achieving is people angry and leaving.

 

Take a look at the new features added to Push 2 with Abe 10

 

So let's have a beta testers breathing competition then here on the forums.

What ? No takers?

Oh btw. By disclosing some of your NDA terms and conditions you may have just broken terms of your NDA. I'm not kidding better check.

 

Where have they said this

Maybe that's the plan

 

In some situations, I can see that being the case. However, a forward thinking and savvy competitor can make good use of almost any information on its adversaries. In an industry as competitive as this one with so many different products fighting for repeat customers, even information that may be general knowledge and seem pretty evident has a role to play in business decisions. For ex, if one company knows that its offering of time stretch, feature X etc is one of the main factors that keeps it ahead of its competition (and that is not changing anytime in the short run), it can choose take its foot off the gas and focus dev hours on improving existing features, bug fixes or some less major changes. If they come to find out that the competitive advantage they are taking for granted is about to be eroded when a competitor implements those missing features, that can shift the focus of dev time to a larger degree. For ex: hold off on certain bug fixes and fluff features for the next X quarters to spend more time on the next “game changer” that will maintain our dominant position in the market.

 

How long have you owned maschine