Amazing Update so far!

I realize that NI probably makes great hardware. However, I don't want to spend that much money on something when my only experience with that company has been mixed between positive first impressions and subsequent frustration.

If it's true that iMaschine, a $5 app, was a device to encourage interest in Maschine, and NI purposely left out certain features in order to avoid "cannibalizing" sales of Maschine, what does that say about Maschine? If a company is worried that a $5 app will compete with $400 (minimum) hardware, than is said hardware really necessary? That kind of attitude reeks of manic insecurity.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to tear you down. I understand your comments and I should make it clear (if I haven't done so already) that I like iMaschine quite a bit. I see iMaschine as an app that could be a killer app. Unfortunately, that unrealized potential only makes my frustration more acute.

As I said, if NI even took the time to make iMaschine inter-compatible with Traktor (ios) alone, that would likely expand it's usefulness enough to make me reasonably content. Being able to send iMaschine beats to Traktor and mix them would be very fun.

As it stands, iMaschine is just a great sketchpad...but it could be so much more.

 

You hit the nail on the head! iMaschine is fun, has a great interface and then you realize that it has no connection to any of your other music apps. As far as cannibalizing Maschine sales, I think that is a big miscalculation on N.I's part. Most Maschine owners want to be able to do more than just 'sketch' with iMaschine. You can't take Maschine anywhere like you can an Ipad or iphone.

Akai isn't worried about iMPC cannibalizing sales of it's MPC products and are even upping their game with the soon to be released iMPC Pro!

 

Easy, Tiger. Put the guns down. I understand that NI is for profit. I understand that they want people to buy their hardware. But I am not someone who is going to buy their hardware. As I said, I will be even less likely to do so having played with iMaschine.

From a marketing standpoint, I'm saying that making apps that lack features found on even much cheaper apps (Figure, anyone?) is not a good way to improve your perception in the marketplace.

I do not expect iMaschine to ever become an "all-in-one production studio". I do, however, believe that it would behoove NI to allow for at least SOME compatibility with other ios apps, even if they insist on keeping everything NI.

I'm sorry if my thoughts have offended you. I didn't realize you two were related.

 

Yeah a basic sequencer would close down NI Berlin

 

....OR if they added Audiobus or IAA we wouldn't even need a sequencer, we could use iMaschine as an instrument in Cubasis, Garageband, Auria, Beatmaker, etc

 

Man that sequencer on imaschine would be killer

 

So, NI's motives "seem to revolve around greed"...... because they have a platform they're highly profitable in (desktop software and controllers) and are not in a hurry to make iPad apps (that are priced significantly low in comparison) that could compete with their own desktop products... or because they discontinue products that don't do well enough and pursue products that do sell, as in what most businesses do?

No. NI already explained that they realized Kore was not sustainable for both technical and economic reasons and had to discontinue it. They still gave Kore a few more updates even after discontinuing it and even made it 64bit compatible. They also gave Kore owners crossgrade discounts for Maschine which is now their flagship product with close integration of all of Komplete.

How is a $5 app with $0.99 sample packs (which are optional not necessary at all for the functioning of the app) "nickel and diming"?

I think that might explain where this discussion has led to. It would be a much more productive discussion if people did realize what iMaschine was and wasn't designed to be.

I wish companies would just give everything people want too. All features ever requested by anyone and it should all be free forever. In reality, companies do what they need to do, which is to look after their interests. That's not being "narrow-minded". That's called operating a business.

 

What that says is that the iPad and the iOS platform in general have already severely disrupted all kinds of industries including music technology to the point that yes, companies are and should be afraid of the fact that while they can charge hundreds of dollars for software and controllers on the desktop platform, iOS apps typically sell for a mere fraction.

Of course. I think things like that are a perfectly reasonable requests, as long as people keep in mind that the main purpose and priority for iMaschine is to be a mobile sketch tool for dekstop Maschine.

 

By "no connection", you mean Audiobus/IAA? The point of iMaschine is to be a quick and simple mobile sketch tool for dekstop Maschine. Period. And for what it was intended to be, it works great, especially after this update.

And you're basing this claim on what exactly?

That's the whole point of iMaschine. I can put down my ideas while I'm out and about with just my iPhone or iPad and then bring it into Maschine to flesh things out in detail when I get home.

Akai isn't worried about iMPC cannibalizing sale of its MPC products because they know they're all ***** and they're desperate to corner any market after the failure of the Ren.

 

Good. You may come to find that actually most all businesses are "for profit".

Figure doesn't even have Reason integration. And iMaschine is not meant to compete feature-wise with other iOS music production apps. It has a very specific purpose and need that it fulfills.

 

Maybe it would help if I said it this way:

I know you probably have friends. Almost everybody does. We all have qualities and talents that help us to find other people to interact with.
From your first posts, I got the idea that you were somebody who likes Native Instruments. You are somebody who believes that they produce great tools for making music. That's fine.
From your subsequent posts, however, it began to become clear to me that you are also quite sure of yourself. You believe that you know the purpose and idea of iMaschine better than anybody else on this forum. You insist that anybody who wants to be able to use iMaschine outside of its "intended purpose" is unreasonable and somebody who wants everything free. (Does anybody use a phone for its "intended purpose" anymore? Thank goodness the Apples and Samsungs of the world didn't say "NO! It's a phone, it's always been a phone, that's all it will ever be! No cameras, no apps, no touchscreen! IT"S A PHONE!)
You have become increasingly condescending with statements like: "You may come to find that actually most all businesses are "for profit.""
From your first posts, I might develop the idea that you are an interesting person. Perhaps even the sort of person who attracts others in a social context. From your later posts, however, I could develop a different idea. I could develop the idea that you have an irascible personality, with an arrogant and condescending manner. I might even go too far and develop the thought that you have a personal distaste for me and that you do not want to have any civil interaction with me.
So it goes with NI and iMaschine. At first impression, I got the idea that this was a company that produced wonderfully functional tools. I LOVE the sounds that come in iMaschine and I have purchased the vast majority of the soundpacks that they have released. With the continued passage of time, however, I have begun to sour on the relationship, due to NI's refusal to give on the point of inter-app compatibility.
In fewer words, I have no doubt that NI has friends (you are one of them, obviously). I'm just not sure they want ME as a friend.
As for your statement "You may come to find that actually most all businesses are "for profit,"" I would like to thank you for your confidence in my ability to comprehend such complex ideas. As a poor, uneducated owner of a small business,myself, I hope that I will learn this principle sooner rather than later. It seems important to my work, somehow.
The only thing my tiny troglodyte brain has been able to absorb thus far is the vaguely fuzzy notion that, somehow, having people maintain interest in the service or product that I provide is directly proportional to my continuing to be able to provide it. (Does this make sense to anybody?! Or am I just making up crazy right now?) I have noticed that when I do things for people that they ask me to do, even when I am not necessarily being paid to do it, those SAME PEOPLE are more likely to ask me to provide goods/services in the future, for which they pay.
I have also noticed that giving people the best service possible for the money that they give to me in exchange seems to have a positive effect on their perception of me and the goods/services I provide. I have noticed that it may even make them more likely to continue to use my goods/services, even when other people approach them to offer the same goods/services.
I don't know why, but I thought the same principle might also apply to Native Instruments.

But I'm an idiot so....nevermind.

 

This is actually a great new feature. I really like it! I had a great time making some weird beats last night. This is what makes iMaschine so very attractive. It is quick, simple and direct.
In fact, one of the reasons that I am not interested in any of the Maschine hardware is that it is so much more complex than what iMaschine is.

 

needs scenes and the ability to duplicate those scenes which in turn means it needs multiple patterns per group.
you take into maschine software and all you got is one big loop.

 

I think that might explain where this discussion has led to. It would be a much more productive discussion if people did realize what iMaschine was and wasn't designed to be.


I wish companies would just give everything people want too. All features ever requested by anyone and it should all be free forever. In reality, companies do what they need to do, which is to look after their interests. That's not being "narrow-minded". That's called operating a business.[/quote]

I don't think the problem is people not realizing what iMachine is designed to be. The problem is a lot of people DO realize what it is designed to be and the limited functionality is frustrating given the capabilities of the platform it was designed to run on (IOS).

As far as it being a 'business decision', we get that too. Some would call it a business decision others might look at as fleecing of the consumer. Companies make decisions, consumers make choices accordingly. Competition is healthy.

The crazy part of all this is that N.I. thinks that by limiting the features in iMaschine they are preventing Maschine sales cannibalization, yet the same functionality is available by using a full featured app. that supports core midi such as Beatmaker 2 with a portable controller such as Quneo. I don't know if N.I. is aware of that fact. Perhaps you should let them know.

 

I think if you can answer this question honestly without rationalizing/apologizing for N.I it will be pretty much sum up this debate: What is the purpose of omitting audio copy/paste in iMaschine?

It is an audio app. is it not? That would be like Microsoft omitting copy/paste in Microsoft Word. lol

 

You do realize that some pretty successful music tech. companies have successfully embraced the IOS platform and produced amazing apps. that complement their existing products and enhanced their reputations: Moog, Korg, Steinberg, just to name a few.

 

So you're saying that it makes sense for someone to understand that iMaschine was never meant to have things like audiobus or any number of features that one would find in all-in-one production tools or tools that are meant to be used in other iOS hosts, yet somehow have the wrong expectation that it should have all those features that have nothing to do with the intended purpose of the app.

Who is "we"? Who are you speaking for?

Right. So this is a non-issue then. So why all the fuss? Why don't you make your consumer choice and use something else, if another product does what you want, instead of whining with misguided expectations about an app for things it was never meant to do?

"Cannibalization" would be NI selling a product that takes away sales from their own products. The fact that you're bringing up a product from another company suggests that you don't quite get what is meant by cannibalization.

The fact that you're bringing up apps that "supports core midi such as Beatmaker 2" would also suggest that you still don't understand the purpose of iMaschine.

 

What makes you think it was omitted? You don't know if it was ever part of the app's spec in the first place. I think it makes sense that the focus of iMaschine is for it to be a mobile sketch tool for desktop Maschine users, period. Non-Maschine users may buy it and may be interested in the desktop Maschine or not. But the main focus is for you to be able to sample directly into iMaschine and using its library and any expansion packs, and then bring it into desktop Maschine. Just as iMaschine wasn't made so that you can just use it in another host, NI didn't make iMaschine so that you can copy and paste from or into another app.

 

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I'm speaking as a consumer advocate who wishes to see technology pushed to the limit. One way to do that is to offer suggestions and constructive criticism to technology companies in feedback forums such as this. I think that is a good thing. Accepting subpar products, regardless of cost or platform is not good. Companies such as N.I. are not perfect and should welcome feedback from their customers.

As far as choosing other apps., been there done that. I would like to use iMaschine more, and in fact probably will use the newest version
(along with some workarounds such as iFile Those work arounds shouldn't be necessary though. They inhibit the work flow.

Your point on cannibalization is noted.

Core midi support should be included in ANY app. that requires pad drumming. Screen repairs are a bit expensive