And So It Begins...

Discussion in 'General Production Forum' started by theinvis, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,069
    yep!, and quality hardware is getting very economical, minilogue, monologue, o-coast, just a gang of synths out there, even the legacy mpcs are more viable now than they were a couple of years ago. akai may not be making them but a 1000 or 2500+ a minilogue, deep12 etc... would make a great setup, or an mp and a bunch of volcas whatever there are so many choices
     
  2. listedcities

    listedcities NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    75
    This is where I’m at. The reason I got Maschine was that I liked NI products and it integrated nicely with the NI vst’s. I eventually sold the Maschine and went to a Korg Kronos, which is an absolute animal with a huge, gaping flaw: It’s an awful drum sampler/sequencer. A proper drum sampler/sequencer should have been the tenth “engine” and it would have been a veritable end-all, be-all production machine, at least apart from certain lackluster sound sets.

    Since it integrates well within Cubase using Asio4All this hasn’t been that big a deal to me, but it certainly detracted from my desire for a much more hardware-centric experience. That said my early production setup was an MPC with a Triton LE and Motif Rack and it’s a rock solid combination. The downside there was that I had no access to quality recording gear, however with the Kronos delivering 16 tracks of midi and audio there’s not much of a reason to go outside the MPC:L/KK combo. Further, with current storage options there's no reason people can't record their external synth sequences as samples directly to the MPC.

    Given that the MPCL has an audio/midi interface and controls the MPC software, it would still give you a solid experience with an external synth that lacks such high end recording features on its own. I will say that the market for deeply integrated control options is largely limited to the MPC, Maschine, and Push series, that market still has options whereas new standalone drum sampler/sequencers have all but died until now. Products like the Elektrons cater heavily toward dance genres and have a relatively limited feature set in terms of price. My guess is we’re a long way off from a truly standalone unit that can install VST’s, though it does appear that such technology is perfectly feasible. NI seems ideally suited to create such a product at this point. That's me though...
     
  3. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,405
    Unless you have market research data and a company to back it up you know as much as I do about what the people want, within this industry or not. Which is jack ****. Linn has actual experience making an marketing products, as does Roland, Arturia, and Akai, literally decades of experience on what sells. I can say what I like but that doesn't mean it's gonna sell.

    Like you, we on the forums aren't the masses (more informed...eh...that's questionable), but we are not the only people these companies make products for, just the most vocal. Most of the time not even the ones who buy or have the product but seem to want to weight in on it like they do (i've done that too so). Take that how you will.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. jpeg

    jpeg Forum Member

    Messages:
    3,088

    market research is good but anecdotal evidence is also of value; when u see users with the same requests and complaints on multiple forms over a period of years you get a general sense of the vocal aspect of the market.
     
  5. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,405
    Anecdotal evidence is limited in scope. You don't get a cross-section of users. What you mostly get is an echo chamber of users who are like minded basically acknowledging that they are like minded and so on and so forth. You can't base you business decisions off of that. There is some value there for sure, but in a hardware product which usually requires long lead times and resources to build, it's not like software where you can make a change today and maybe take it back tomorrow if it doesn't work or fix it. Hardware has a lot of components from manufacturing to marketing to retail. Basing your business decision on a handful of users on a forum isn't going to cut it, imo. You have to choose what you want to do within a given budget (based on what margins you are looking for) and hope to hit enough of a crossection of users to make your money back and hopefully a profit (sometimes not even that).

    Why do you think NI does surveys? They are gathering the necessary data to make business decisions.
     
  6. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,325
    while i agree with your post.. i have seen and taken part in several NI surveys and the one thing i would comment on is that as an objective means of collecting market data they are very poorly constructed. They basically flow to tell NI what they wanted to hear all along.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,405
    Definitely agree with you there. They seem more like backdoor marketing than anything. Like would you like a keyboard? Six months later they take out keyboard. LOL.
     
  8. jpeg

    jpeg Forum Member

    Messages:
    3,088
    All valid points but Im sure the survey responses is the same echo chamber of forum anecdotal feedback; plus NI have proven in the past 5 years that they dont fully listen to what users tell them they want, hence the great dissatisfaction with NI's handling of machine in recent years; up until Jam came out, to add to a long list of un fulfilled user request.
     
  9. D-J-K

    D-J-K NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,293
    Speaking of echo chambers....
     
  10. de wouzer

    de wouzer NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,661
    NI targets on a lower budget, I think...
    these standalone stuff might be like 1300 euro

    they said many times, that their idea about NI is that they use computers, to make amazing instruments for low prices.
     
  11. the hamburgler

    the hamburgler Forum Member

    Messages:
    716
    it's true there are many opinions , and many people on this forum speaking authoritatively but only one person on this forum was correct about this new stand alone mpc/ 2.0 controller, and it wasn't me.
     
  12. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,352
    I don't think paying $1000 for maschine studio, $999 for komplete, or the price for a komplete kontrol is low budget for some people. Plenty of people can't afford NI software and hardware.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. jpeg

    jpeg Forum Member

    Messages:
    3,088
    this seems like an attempt to move maschine and mpc in to different price categories to avoid having to compare the two devices, now that u sense that akai may have gained the upper hand.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  14. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,325
    "and so it begins.."

    A hardware MPC will be a runaway success, .. many people, and particularly the younger set who may have been ITB only, are discovering that you can have more fun, and be more inventive with less gear, and that includes the computer... from mopho, rolands stuff, novation, arturia etc etc..

    Vive l'hardware Revolution!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. jpeg

    jpeg Forum Member

    Messages:
    3,088
    so if this hardware unit is a runaway success; then the MPC Legacy comes early next year along with a ROland ACB standalone.

    what does that mean for Maschines current market position? w
     
  16. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,454
    That it's still behind Ableton Push and needs some serious work putting into it? Although there is obvious overlap, there's also a big difference in the userbase for MASCHINE compared with standalone grooveboxes and samplers. Yes, some MASCHINE users will sell up and switch, but as long as NI continue to develop MASCHINE (and, to an extent, even if not), there will be other customers starting to use it or switching from other workflows to it. I don't think the types of standalone boxes that these seem to be will actually threaten MASCHINE that much at all in the grand scheme of things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  17. listedcities

    listedcities NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    75
    Where is all the information for the Roland ACB standalone?

    All I see are forum posts referencing it going back a full year... but absolutely zero information to substantiate that this is on the horizon. Absolutely none.
     
  18. jpeg

    jpeg Forum Member

    Messages:
    3,088
    The first hand source of the information for the Roland ACB sampler actually saw the device; and this is the same person who gave early warning on the Touch and he also gave details of two other products which he actually saw, including the flagship MPC Legacy that will arrive early next year.

    I think your rationale of standalone grooveboxes vs maschine looks more like a comparison between traditional standalone units the (mpc1k, electribe) vs maschine; and using those criteria ur correct,

    however the new breed of standalone device can function as a hybrid and as a standalone this feature set has not been offered by a major manufacturer in a significant manner before.

    So this although simple and obvious to use the user is a game changing shift; that could re-structure the whole grove box and hybrid controller market place.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  19. Mac Tinitus

    Mac Tinitus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    279
    Idk .. use a MacBook Pro and Machine Studio . It's like standalone . MacBook is ready to go from push the on button till start Maschine in seconds . But also you can use what ever you want you need in this moment you want . Quick . Mobile ... 10/15 years ago it was only a dream to have reasons like this . Me not a fanboy of Ni but this Maschine Studio is still a amazing .Sure if future brings Stand alone boxes with Akku charging /ssd Service it's nice . Should be not this big .. so like the mikro because portable Funktion on a big Maschine will puff in the Air . We have so so many ways to use software/hardware gear but we ever want more ways .. maybe than other problems come .. less Akku power .. less CPU power .. gears CPU cooler is to loud ...gear get to hot .. bla bla bla . We never find the end .
     
  20. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,352
    From what i noticed on here, other forums and real life is you will have that user base that will either wait for maschine to get pushed (no matter what comes out) further or they will move on. The second that NI put out a new maschine, the one's that got rid of it will be right back without a doubt. Akai is fine, they are just adding features that maschine users have been waiting for. With Roland, I mean look what happened with the mv8800. I don't think people want to find out from guitar center that your product is being discontinued. I just don't personally trust them long term with that product. It's exciting because it's new hardware that is coming out. I think they make good stuff though.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1