Any synths with feedback in the UL, non spark instruments

are there any synths in the UL that have feedback to the filter? not an internal feedback within the filter, there many of those, feeback from the output after the ampl etc. I know SPark has it I have spark, but I'm look for another example to look at.

I've tried several method that i though might work but most of the casue the filter to sound like really crap, nyquist or something like that. I haven't been able to get around it and that is even when I've used a limiter and compression like it spark. Funny thing is the filter doens't do that when I only use a feedback loop on itself, only when I use the feedback the oscillators.

 

I've had very mixed results with feedback: often, I expect and want it to produce all kinds of insane screeching and it seems to deaden the sound somehow? I thought that maybe it was phase cancellations, but I'm not sure.

The next thing I thought to try (I don't have Spark as a model, although the idea of limiting the feedback is great) was to put a sort of tuned delay into the feedback loop, set the delay time in tune with the cutoff frequency of the filter (the formula would be something like... [Filter cutoff P] -> [P-F module] -> [2nd input of a Math>Divide, with constant of 1000 in the 1st input]), but then modulate the delay time with something like a Slow Random LFO: I was wondering whether that might result in more woolly, nasty stuff? Or... putting the feedback through an Allpass filter? No idea whether that would help, but it'd do things to the phase of the signal...

I'll have a play next time I get some building time, but let me know if you get any really unpleasantly loud and unpredictable noise because that's always good

 

I did that very same thing yesterday, sort of like a comb filer. However I used the keyboard pitch and not the cutoff freq I'll give that a try.

I'm find that a feedback level that screw everything up does seem to deaden the sound, tried to use a filter the limit some of that. Sounds best when it is insane and messing the filter up but it cant be controlled.

 

i did some messing around with my own synth. I had to change somethings before I felt it could be posted. Changed the env's, fix some of the routing in the LFOs, corrected an error I made in the LFOs, made sure I blocked event loops at the correct time, added some limiters here and there, and change the feedback a bit blah, blah, blah.

The feedback from the amp is not striaght forward feedback it runs thru a freq shifter, the freq shifter can gets its base note from the keyboard or from the Filter cutoff the tuning adjusts from there. There is still some harsh sounding things when you sweep the cutoff with high resonance. I think its because its hitting the nyquist thing but that kind of DSP savy is all lost on me i'm sort of dumb .

It's not exactly what I was hoping for, I really wanted straight feedback but I've not been able to manage it well. with what I've tried tends to make the filter sound bad, nyquist thing agian, rather then driving it, mostly it just muffles the sound and doesn't sound all that great anyway. The freq shifter thing I thought was cool, I've done things with that for myself with feedback many times before, but feel that it's not going to be for most peoples taste.

anyway heres my take on it at this time.

 

yes - you can try out feedbacks with mm1.
I have added a small snapshot bank. Snap 1 to 9 have a feedback from filter to PWM.

ciao herw

 

Not in the UL, but doesn't Resochord of Electric INstruments 2 has feedback?

 

Yes Resochord has feedback on comb filters.

 

OK, Thanks. I will give them a try.

Yes it does I gave that a look over this evening. A few of things I saw I gave a try for a few hours but nothing came of it for me.


________________________________

Spent some more time on my own instrument, I think I’ve managed to make worse off then it was. Although I added some more modulation destinations.

I guess they dont want it in the forum I can upload it right now

 

Attached is an ensemble that includes filter feedback. The feedback loop runs from the output of a 4P filter back into its input. The loop includes a fixed highpass filter (to eliminate DC offset), a tunable delay line, and a saturator to control the level.

Playing with the delay length and filter frequency can make for some weird tones. Is this the kind of thing you're looking for?

 

Thanks Chet. I changed the tune in my instrument to a HP freq and the fine tune to a delay amount. Seem interesting can make some comb like FX and other, but the sound does seem to muddy up a bit. I will have to play with it a bit more latter, I'm feeling a bit sick today. I tried placing the previous posted version in a tune and see how it sat in a mix, it was awful, I try the adjusted version as well.

Herw, I tried the feedback snaps. Its very controlled but not very aggressive. I guess for me I want it to be mild to really aggressive.

I don't own a mopho and there's no chance I'll find on around here to try out to see how it works...

 

The synth in my Frankenloop ensemble has filter feedback, just on the primary level though. Haven't tried anything like this in Core.

http://kore.noisepages.com/2008/06/20/introducing-frankenloop/

I have it set up to modulate the delay on the fed back signal, which can give thick flangey or chorusey sounds.

 

ahh you want aggressive sounds (metal rock or experimental industrial sounds?).
well first you have to get a basic aggressive sound by hard synchronisation (a saw oscillator (pm=-12 or -24) synchronizes a tri oscillator pm=0 .. 1 !) - both oscillators phase locked which means that they start at same phase when gate signal reaches.
Then the sound feeds through f.i. a P52-filter and back to the pitch modulation (range p=1 to 40 !) of the synchronized tri oscillator.
you have to experiment some time to get several "big" and "powerfull" aggressive sounds.

ciao herw

 

I just read up a bit about Spark and apparently one of Stephan Schmitt's inspirations was Weedwacker, which should be in the UL still?

 

Changing the second OSC to sync is on my to do list. Lots to think about, try, and see what works best for the instrument (somehting that offers the greast amount of flexiblity without an overwhelming amount of controls to fuss with).

m3m I look at weedwacker sometime back, it seem to be a fav for many but I've never done well with that instrument for whatever reason.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and help everyone. I've posted the instrument in the UL. The feedback is not as aggressive as I would have liked but it seems OK for now.

 

perhaps you shouldn't use high filter resonance values.

ciao herw

 

avoid the squeeling ear bleed sounds?

The HP should limit that somewhat shouldn't it. I'll have to listen again in the morning.

 

I think I have that one, I check.
---

I;ve updated the instrument I did. I help back on the resonance, you can still get it if you want it. Added BP/HP filters but remove almost the core macros and when primary.

 

like this ? don't use headphones but big PA

 

Chet's Physically prepared guitar ens made very aggressive feedback. (it was based upon an idea by Sowari)

Audio snippet i made (sorry about the hostin site) feedchet.mp3 - 0.14MB (this clip is from a layered tune ignoe those background sounds)

here's the ens http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=6825