Apple Silicon "Native version"

And yet again you prove your lack of knowledge in development.
So lets break this into points, again.
1. The standard in modern day development is developing in agile methodologies, I have my experience from working in multiple companies, but you can read up more of how development is done and managed now days.
2. Every PR, Deploy to UAT/Prod has a ci/cd pipeline to ensure each release goes through regression and sanity. a good ci/cd pipeline is a mandatory thing for agile development.
The only time there is a manual interaction with deployment, is for devops in case scaling is needed.
3. With all due respect to NI, much smaller companies with much more complex development challenges and integration had to refactor. and no one took a year to do it. taking a year for refactoring would impact directly in the future revenue of the company, and no stakeholder would want that.
Which is why companies stick to their planned roadmaps, especially when you are talking about refactoring which impact the whole integrity of the software.
4.The whole high tech industry already proved it for me and they keep proving it everyday, and any junior developer in a tech company would tell you the same. And all the details I shared are known development practices and not my opinion, I'm a developer I go by the actual facts and not wishes and hopes.
It is obvious by how you elaborate in your responses that you are not a developer, or at least not one that works with modern methodologies. so in your case it is obviously an OPINION.

 

I am pretty sure internally NI would operate in the way you probably believe they "should" in that they would have a roadmap and they would be working based on an agile workflow but there are also a lot of facets to their model that for good or bad, have shaped the way things are now.

Look at some of the things in the past, failure of Kore, huge amounts of time, resources and promises for a new Maschine workflow, many other things that have probably all accumulated from fragmented development teams operating within their own worlds to a more cohesive workflow across all departments. At some point, large amounts of money started to flow and like most business that has cashflow, there are investors that care nothing about the products or userbase, they care about profits and returns.

So to "streamline" how things work and make sure the pigs are fed, like most big business they would have created a management chain which ensures a roadmap can work to predict profits but also narrows the goal posts on what can be completed in a certain block of time. Any deviation from that to add new features, fix a new issue that has cropped up, consider a new product triggers a landslide of analysis and "red tape" that makes it much longer to fix things than a smaller company that can just decide to switch gears and go a different rout.

The reason a public roadmap would not be available is simply because of how users are, especially entitled audio users like all of us who complain ad nauseum when told something will happen by day X and 2 seconds past the date we kick up a stink. When something is rushed and (surprise) doesn't work quite right, we kick up a stink. When we pay money for something and it doesn't work how we expect, perfectly and first time, yep we kick up a stink. Users are the ones to blame for not having access to info because users are (collectively) not able to handle how things in the world actually work so keeping quiet until actually ready to announce something is very common and I cannot blame companies for it at all. A common saying in some parts of business is "things would be so much easier if we didn't have to deal with users..." , but of course it's a catch 22.

Any user these days needs to educate themselves (tho they wont) on things like compatibility and requirements and learn that when ANY new OS or hardware architecture comes out there will be a good 6-12 months of teething issues. Frustrating as it may be to buy a shiny new system and find out many things aren't yet compatible with no solid timeframe, it's just how things are and people really need to hold off for a while, accept that if they do jump in there will be maybe 12 months of frustrations or move to Mars because Earth isn't a suitable host for their expectations.

 

Actually, I am SW developer, 30+ years of experience... But for sure no agile things, ISOs and so on. But what I see in my field, even big companies fail to deliver SW according to contract. Even several years´ delays are pretty common.

What I meant is, that you do not know, if they use modern thingies or not. You say, what they should use. And my point is, they probably use it, but the things simply take time.

And do not overestimate AS. Till few weeks ago it represented 5% of NI users (or relevant market - not sure). And only non-pro maschines were available. And still are. Pro will come with M2.

So, no need for extreme hurry. And it is better to test plugins in native DAWs, so first at least main DAWs have to be AS, so that plugins could be well tested... And there may be other aspects that slow down the process.

 

Nonsense. The current MacBook Pros are certainly "pro" machines. Your opinion on this point is absurd to the point of being silly.

And several main DAWs ARE AS native. So your point here is nonsense too.

 

On the issue of "agile" SW development. What I think could be a factor slowing down AS for NI is a desire to unify the "agile" methodologies with iZotope. Having these two companies share a more unified development approach might be slowing down AS for their products in the short term, but will yield better and faster development when they get their new team workflow established.

This is very evident from the recent change in leadership:

https://www.native-instruments.com/...-izotope-are-unifying-their-leadership-teams/

 

Isn't it clear by now that a lot of pro audio applications are not compatible with Silicon?
and by a lot, we see that it's actually the majority. A reminder on Agile isn't going to get this done any faster for the majority of the industry ...

 

And this is the point. This is a watershed event.

Those companies that already DO have their products AS native are showing their customers that they are vibrantly on top of important emerging technologies. And I as a user will favor such companies as being better investments in my software tools going forward.

If a company is lagging at this point, my faith in them diminishes to spend more money on their products.

 

OK, MacBook Pros have been released few weeks ago. And as they may be Pro, they are not hi-end Pro, they have only 8+2 cores and CPU power of my hobby-toy miniPC... But OK, there is Pro line for few weeks.

First there have to be native DAWs, and after that testing that takes weeks or months may start... It was my point...
You cannot drive and test a Tesla car before a road/highway is built...... You may build a Tesla car before the road is built, but can start testing it after the road is completed.

 

OK so... i'm so glad i just go tthe new macbook pro. The m1/Arm chips have been out for over a year. There was plenty of time to refactor the code to be native. The "pro" models have absolutely nothing to do with anything. THe fact is Apple Silicon computers came out Nov 2020. It's been 13 months. That is PLENTY of time.

I also love that Monteray has been out for a while, and despite the beta versions being in circultaion since March, there is still no word or update

 

To me it looks like Apple, through their poor legacy support, is pushing the cost over on the users, developers and the environment.

 

Different thread but we already shared that some products are already compatible and others are in beta (including Maschine and Komplete Kontrol).

 

I guess we all should have Windows PCs, there should be no other platforms (perfect Microsoft monopoly and one solution for everyone, just like nice grey uniforms for everyone in communist China of old)

At least this seems to be every developer’s dream…

Logic was available on M1 from day one, I mean it’s a bloody Mac, what other DAWs?

Being serious, Logic, Live and Reaper are M1 compatible, that’s three main DAWs to test on.

As for the rest of main DAWs, Steinberg was never efficient on Mac and they got into dead end with eLicenser on BOTH platforms to the point that they need to change their whole protection scheme. But anyway, NI can’t even provide VST3 for PCs timely, so I wouldn’t worry about Steinberg much

And Avid is held back by another outdated dinosaur, which is iLok…

I was patiently waiting and defending NI here on this forum, but not anymore.

Not when Spectrasonics, AAS, U-HE, Synapse, Cockos, Ableton, FabFilter, DiscoDSP and Arturia and countless other big and small developers are all M1 native.

But the final straw for me is the fact that Waves managed to release all of their 100-something plugins and virtual instruments for M1 natively (some of those are more than 20 years old).

But the big difference is that Waves keeps updating their underlying framework and they are on V13 now, whereas NI is using graphic libraries which are at least 15 years old. That’s why there’s no HiDPI update so far and that’s why they can’t just recompile for M1.

I mean how one can expect them to provide compatibility with a whole new platform if they cannot even make Komplete Kontrol window resizable

 

Ableton Live is beta, or at least was month or so ago. Final release of Reaper running M1 was 3 months ago. Most of industry testing, testing, testing... Even Waves have compatibility only with some DAWs and severe issues with others.
https://www.waves.com/support/waves-with-apple-m1-processors

And speaking about communist China. Very close to what Apple platform is, indeed. Apple knows what is good for users, Apple fences users and protects them from the wild and evilish outside world. But I admit, Apple is much better world than the chinnese one.

In x86 one has choise from two, three CPU manufacturers, several SSD, RAM, graphic card manufacturers. And beside Microsoft, there is also Linux. Backward compatibility is quite good, not perfect. But still, it is not uncommon 25 years old program runs just fine.

Maybe NI does not want to spend money on it. Or it is in the pipeline, but with low priority and so eternally being overrun by things like AS compatibility, Mac OS 1, 2, 3, 4, ... compatibility....

 

If by “some DAWs” you mean like the majority of them, then sure, Waves is M1 native in some DAWs…

Yes, you have Linux on X86. So is NI compatible with it?

As seen with you, it’s a dream of every PC user to convert us to the right platform as it seems that, according to you, 20% of computer users worldwide (and 50% in music/media business) has lost their minds to Apple, the communist company

I’m grateful that you want to show me the path of light, thanks for that…

Other than that, I have nothing to add. Your obsessive hatred of Apple platform is showing in every one of your posts. Which is sad.

 

I guess Apple products must have some kind of adictiveness incorporated. I would not stand such a terror from manufacturer of my computers for longer time than one OS update, but many people evidently do. That is probably Job's enigma.

Let's keep fingers crossed for them, so that NI completes native M1 port soon.

 

China is also about 20% of the world. Just coincidence?

Apple is Ok, if people want use it, why not. I am not saying they should not, just saying PC makes most of jobs for less money and less troubles.

 

A

Arturia are partially M1 native. As of last week.
Spectrasonics was Rosetta until 2 months ago.
The KK window is resizable for Kontakt. Click the view drop down and click edit view.
I’m on a 16” M1 Pro and had Monterey, and aside from Omnisphere, Logic and Cherry Audio stuff, it was a mess. Dropped back to Big Sur and they’re mostly ok. I’d question whether Live is really taking advantage of the M1 processor as the public version runs about as well as it does on my 2012 MBP unibody.

 

Just checking in, any update on this? Thanks!

 

I’ve just given up on this, not worth my nerves or my patience. And no software is irreplaceable

Speaking of, I’ve just managed to ditch T-Racks and replace it with selection of Waves plugins which are all M1 native. I’d rather pay WUP once per year and have everything working on a computer platform of my choice.

I’m afraid NI is next on my chopping block (still hoping not, as I need both Maschine and Kontakt).

And before any vocal PC fan bother to answer, I’ll save you time typing: “it’s all Apple’s fault, they should have stayed with Intel, they chaaaange things, I should have bought a PC instead of Mac”. There, done it for ya.

 

Yeah, I’ve bought Arturia Pigments recently and I’m loving it. It’s great being able to use a solid synth natively. For now it will replace Massive X for me, I’ve had too many hanging notes and other glitches when using it with Apples AU compability service.

Still, I love NI‘s tools and I’m not giving up on them. Not yet, anyway But a bit more information, something like a rough roadmap or even a public beta would be great