Are external SSDs fast enough for Komplete?

Hi

I am on the lookout for a new Macbook (I know that M1 is not supported so the question is more to gauge for a purchase next year or so). Does anyone have experience in using an external SSD with USB-C to put all the Komplete library on? I am thinking of not getting the internal SSD upgrade (costs over 200 euro) and rather the RAM upgrade. I would then put all my VSTs on an external SSD. Is that doable or should I save up more for an internal SSD upgrade?

 

Ah, the tough choice on where to spend money. Biggest reason I use PC for my main stuff because adding storage, Ram, GPU upgrades are literally 10 minute jobs and dirt cheap.

But if you are tied into the apple eco system, yes an SSD (even a HDD.... pretty much any) will be just fine but chances are with the whole 2 x USBC ports they give you (4 if you have that kind of cash) you will have a frankenstein of hubs and external drives and docks before you know it. I prefer a nice tidy tower with all that safely installed and out of the way but some do prefer having the guts of a system spread out all over the table

However, I would recommend you install the actual VST on the internal drive, just install the content libraries on ext drive.

 

Extra +1 on this one

 

I actually started with Komplete on a External HDD and it worked fine. But then I shifted to Komplete Ultimate on an External SSD. I started to have issues, especially with strings and guitars (picked and strummed together etc.). So I decided to upgrade to an Internal SSD with much more memory.
I think the upgrade to Ultimate simply added more need for performance and, of course, there begins an issue with volume of storage also. Together these issues propogate to problems - at least from my perspective. Toss in a few new Extensions and you can start to see where performance and need for space multiply. I should mention that trying to work with almost full SSD degrades performance, best to keep 15% or more space free. JesterMgee is right, keep the VST on main drive and content on the second internal SSD volume or drive.
Bottom line: Plan for growth and buy a big, big SSD internal.

 

The thing with Ultimate or Uttimate CE is that some of the Kontakt libraries are really huge. Stradivari Violin is about 22 GB. So, much more data needs to be transfered. And if systém does not have loads of RAM (more than 16-32 GB - depending on ligraries used), data get loaded on run I guess.

So, if working with orchestral/big libraries, internal SSD seems to be handy. And lots of RAM. I could do with 8 GB, till I started to play with orchestral. Now I have 16 GB, but need more..... My next PC will have in the worst case 32 GB, 64 would be better.

 

Here‘s running 4TB of external SSDs (Transcend and Samsung) full with Kontakt libraries. No problems with my ancient MacPro6,1.

 

Yes, the strings add a lot of demands. Additional libraries do as well, as you say. I can't remember if the original Native Instruments install drive was compressed or not, I think it was. However, a real good solution to all this would be if Native Instruments shipped the original install for Ultimate as an uncompressed 'ready-to-use' drive that one could simply buy a mounting bracket for an SSD and install the whole thing directly into a PC as-is. One option might be to ask for the drive, at purchase, to be installed on a 2Tb, 4TB, 8TB SSD thereby leaving suitable space. In this way, one would not have to buy a whole new SSD in addition.

 

Well, I do not know how it is now, but just after release of K13U CE, Cremona Quartet files were not on the instalation disc. Users had to download them. And. They are almost 90 GB.

It would not be easy to sell disc for direct use. Someone would be OK with HDD, other would like SSD, yet another exellent SSD. Different installation for Mac and Win. Also different disc formats. For PC, for notebook.... And different sizes of discs. Seems to be rather complicated....

 

Numerous issues with this approach tho, counting out shipping of drives and the obvious issue of users breaking or corrupting drives themselves...

1. Ordering the product and drive from other countries would attract import taxes.
2. Someone at NI would have to pre-load this onto drives to ensure it is current and up to date at time of shipping to avoid having to update 12 month old libraries
3. Installation of the actual plugin and setup to the content would still be needed at the user end
4. The choice of drive may not be suitable for everyone.... Talking TB of content you would be using a HDD not SSD and this may not be suitable for many users, the cost of an SSD may be much higher than if you went and bought a decent SSD locally.

I think in this day and age users need to consider for themselves if they have the capacity to install the multi-GB libraries they are looking to purchase. They need to consider their own storage requirements, the speed of internet to download and update libraries etc. Can't be the manufacturers responsibility all the time to solve the end users limitations for them. If it is in fact not possible for the end user to download that data or install that amount of content, look at something else.

You can already buy the HDD option which has content installers on them, the bulk is installed from the delivered SSD and then updated using Native Access but you cannot run it direct from the drive, you need to sort your own solution which these days is a pretty simple affair and under $100 which anyone spending $1K+ on plugins should be able to afford

 

But Native Instruments, as you say, is already delivering the disk option. In fact, that is what I bought Ultimate on and had delivered because downloading it all would have been too timely and problematic. All I am suggesting is that rather than use the drive they already sell, offer the SSD with:
- mountable holes in the sides, adaptor bracket ready
- make it ready-to-use; not compressed
- available in different TB sizes; let buyers pay whatever size they want above normal cost (which should be minimal)

I agree that other options should be left open so users to decide. Like you, I agree options are better. But the 3 above should become another option.
Updates for all options can be handled with Native Access anyhow.
I should mention that SSD have dropped in price, my new 2TB came in under 200€.
Thinking on this a bit more, I wonder if not only putting all the plugins on the internal main drive in addition to strings and guitar content (but leaving the rest of the content on a secondary or external drive makes any sense or gain in speed in performance.

Another question is: would using a fast external NAS for all the content work well?

 

I described, that preinstalled path is way problematic... NI would need to offer at least 6-8 options for each Komplete product... Maybe even more.... And it would not bring many benefits, IMHO.

Concerning NAS. It has two aspects.
1) Is it alowed by NI Licence?
2) Does it work and work well?

1) No, NI Licence forbids installation on network disc. And NAS is network disc....
2) Some users reported, that they managed to install NI libraries on NAS and that it works well.

I have it on fast internal SSD and still it seems to me that loading times are somewhat long. At least for Komplete libraries 10+ GB. But maybe it is more due to old, weak processor (4/8 cores 2,1 GHz), than SSD.

 

not sure if you got this sorted, but I believe mostly an SSD is the right way to go. Just remember there are SATA ssd's (that are like flat thin boxes) and they only get around 400 MB a second. then theres NVME ssd's (look like gum stick), they are MUCH faster but are still only usb 3.0 speeds. I wouldn't try it with a "platter drive", they're very slow. And running anything off your system disc isn't good.

The new M1 Macs are great and you can run anything, you just use rosetta for apps that arent optimized for M1 (its a simple interpreter that runs in the background). not sure about the post talking about lack of ports on the MacBooks. they are fast thunderbolt ports with a USBc connector type. I only use 1 port and pipe my monitors, audio and everything through a single thunderbolt cable to a dock.dock has 3 drives attached and are out of sight and mind. Much more convenient than a bunch of wires coming out of a bunch of ports on the laptop, just plug in one thin cable and youre off. . M1 is a beast with logic. Also lastly dont forget, some SSD's differ with buffer speeds. Example, I have a Blackmagic camera that uses an SSD for footage and we use a Samsung T5, because the buffer is much different than even faster slim ssd's. ultimately you can just start low, buy an external SSD drive (and enclosure if needed) and test it. you can always return it if its not working.

 

Using one port for many devices may work if the transfer speed will do. In my opinion 3 ports is absolute mimimum needed. One for audio interface, one for the hub and one empty for temporary devices like USB sticks amd so....

Not all programs run under Rosetta 2. For example Massive X had to be redesigned to be able to run under Rosetta. But yes, most programs do run under Rosetta.

 

Main trick on windows is use esata or thunderbolt instead of usb. On mac use thunderbolt vs usb.

 

Why? USB 3.2 is way faster than eSATA. And while it is slower than latest thunderbolt it is still way faster than SSD.

 

well, I was replying to the OP about wanting a MacBook so I was quoting the 40gps pipeline speed of the thunderbolt/usb3 port. unless you're tracking 100's of live inputs it can handle the library drive, interface, etc. through one line. its just a technical observation and I (personally) haven't seen a need for the prosumer use of more than 1 input and a dock on a modern MacBook. my processing starts to choke before the pipeline comes close. I just invested in a USB4 drive and it pushes about 7 gigs a second, thats way more than youll ever pull from a library. I converted my windows machine to a graphics powerhouse for Maya, Houdini, blender, etc so I cant comment on the DAW side of windows. but good luck, and keep making great tunes everyone. have an awesome rest of your weekend

 

I know one port will do for most cases. But more than one makes things easier....

 

Yes, make sure that you are using an eSATA or USB 3.X port (must be blue and/or marked as SuperSpeed).
Sata3 transfer rate is 600MB/s, for eSATA it is 750 MB/s, USB 3.0 & 3.1 have 625 MB/s and USB 3.2 has 1250MB/s.

Be careful as many PC cases ship with lots of USB 2 front panel ports but only 1 or 2 USB 3 ports.
And even current high end motherboards are still being made with many USB 2 ports.

Additionally, internal SSD speeds may depend on the SSD controller and even the cable used, so please don't reuse very old SATA cables.
Tested a fairly cheap 1TB QLC SSD and got over 500MB/s read speeds on a laptop from 2017 with it almost full.

 

If you're aiming for an external SSD I would recommend going for NVME, it's a lot faster than a regular SSD, smaller and the price difference is small.
I recently upgraded my internal nvme and bought a cheap 25$ USB3 enclosure for the old one, it's around 2x faster than my other internal regular SSD, I only have 3.1 Gen 2 ports which aren't the latest and greatest, I reckon with something more modern it could be even faster so the small price difference is worth it IMO.