B4 versus B4 II

Just before Christmas I received B4 II as an update to the original B4. Though the overall sound and many features are OK, I was VERY suprised to find out that the same preset in B4 II sounded really very different from the same preset in the original B4, so much different that it affected in a negative sense the way my music sounded. Especially the sound of the overdrive is different and therefore the whole feel of the sound. In the B4 II it sounds much more like a real distortion, much sharper and grittier and is much more present, but, most of the time too much!. It also sounds much more apart from the organ sound. In the original B4 I liked the smooth warm distortion. Of course one can fine tune everything but sofar I'm not succesfull in reproducing this smooth warm distortion of the original! I didn't upgrade to B4 II to end up keep on using the original B4!

 

I totally agree. I use B4 II live and recently switched back to B4 for the same reasons. I like many of the new features in B4 II, but even with Drive all the way down, there seems to be a harshness that was not present in B4 ............... especially in the higher register. It almost sounds like it's still distorting (digitally), yet the output is significantly lower than B4. I am very dissappointed.

 

"richever": I'm glad you have the same experience! I will write to NI. Maybe they can explain to me what is the reason and if there is a simple way to reproduce the original B4 sound in B4 II (or rather the original overdrive sound). I take this very serious, because I think the subtle distortion in combination with the leslie makes the Hammond B3 (B4) sound so unique!

 

Yes, I Like the B4 sound more then the B4 II.

 

I totally agree with the remarks about distortion on B4II
It was one of my first mails on this forum.
I have found it more harsh on any of the 4 Leslie type settings. It does vary if you try using one of the other amp
types but of course this changes the Hammond sound slightly.

You have probably tried this but if not try the distortion on
one of the other amps. I do not play in a band anymore so
this really is not a problem to me. But I am still disappointed
with N.I.that they got it wrong

 

Hi,

Let me chime in wholeheartedly with all the above posters. I was also unpleasantly surprised by the overdrive of B4 II, which has nothing of that creamy quality of the real thing.

It's surprising that NI totes it as an improvement and a spin off of the Guitar Rig valve modelling algos.

One solution (I'm on a Mac) is to run B4 II in e.g. RAX but with no FX. Then, insert a suitable overdrive plug-in FX and lastly a B4/B4 II FX for the cabinet and leslie (thankfully now MIDI learn assignable).

Granted this method makes some demands on your CPU. Hopefully, NI will listen to the unanimous criticism and release an update with an overdrive character more in keeping with the original, and with NI's Guitar Rig/Guitar Combos reputation.

Cheers,

Joey

 

i have just installed B4 II on an intel imac and i have to agree, the drive feature is unusable. i have used the garageband amp emulations to get closer to a leslie distortion sound but i'd rather have the B4 handle everything. seems like a software fix is in order. anybody from NI read this forum? i have issues with low note aliasing on a small range of notes from C to G flat midway up the keyboard. anybody else notice that? otherwise a cool sounding instrument with a plenty of options to fine tune the sound.

 

I totally agree to this threads main view on distortion - the B4 is way better than the B4 II, although none of them is too close to the real B3/L122 setup as I know it. I have whimpered about this in another thread as well. Let's hope the B4 III will fulfill all my dreams.

Currently I use B4 for normal hammond work and B4II fopr Farfisa emulation and strange effects. For that purpose it's OK...

--gordon

 

Hi!
DItto!

I went from XP to a Mac Pro, and in doing so simply grabbed the B4 II "upgrade" to us eit on an Intel Mac. HUGE mistake. I am now trying to ifnd a suitable replacement, and will most likely go for a stand-alone module of some kind (maybe a Voce V3). Amp modelling always sounds like poo to me, and NI got it wrong like the rest. Funny thing is, I think they had it far closer to "right" before!!!

Anyone wanna buy my B4II?

 

I hole heartily agree...and only have tried b4II! Every time I try to mimic the sounds of the b3 on b4II it doesn't sound close...distortion sounds like crap! Is there any way to get original b4 for free as I already own the overrated b4II? Why, oh why do you do this to us NI...you insult the hammond organ!! Your punishment is to listen to Kenny G for the next 48 hours straight! Please fix these problems we are having as users, we shouldn't have to come up with half assed solutions combining effects and programs...that's why we BOUGHT your product! How much for a real hammond b3 and leslie in canadian....

 

I agree.. just installed B4II yesterday and the distortion sounds were like buzzing bees! Horrible unusable...I was especially shocked by the Jon Lord emulations..pure crap, thin and buzzy
Yes there should be a free retrograde downgrad to B4....

I haven't listened to everything but is this problem just with the overdirve sounds? Are the other sounds inferior to the B4?

thanks

 

NI doesn't read this board

Here's my e-mail

b4II sounds

> DESCRIPTION:
> as a former owner of B4 I am totally disappointed with the sound of b4II..is
there a way to download B4?
> NI need to fix this problem. Why change something that was amazing to something
that\'s mediocre just for the sake of change?
> Is it driven by commerce and the need to sell new product? I\'m seriously
thinking about returning this and searching out B4

Here's the reply

Dear Harley,

I\'m pretty much sure that there\'s a problem that can be fixed by our tech
support. There\'s actually nobody who I know that complained about the quality
of the B4 II in comparison to the B4. Please get in touch with our tech support
using the following online form:

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=suppform_us

Best regards,

Stefan Mueller

 

WOW, send em one back to a link to this thread and many others and they might be a little surprised! Do they even look at this stuff? ...Again..WOW!

 

Count me in... I just purchased NI Komplete with my new ADKpro workstation. I was very excited to hear my new 'toys' and I couldn't be more disappointed with B4 II. I am turning the drive off in virtually every preset just to play them. Not only does the drive make any kind of chord playing impossible, it doesn't sound remotely like an overdriven tube amplifier.

I'm also disgusted to hear that NI doesn't even look at their own user forums. What better place to find out how their customers react to new products?

I will write tech support and ask if I can 'downgrade' to the better-sounding B4.

 

Just to let anyone who is interested know:

I just wrote to tech support via their online form to let them know that a lot of us think the drive control is unusable in B4 II. (Why don't they have a simple contact form for customer feedback that doesn't make you fill in every tech detail of your whole rig?)

Here is the text of my message to them:

NI does not seem to encourage feedback from its customers since there seems to be no way of writing to let you know how we are reacting to your software changes and updates. Apparently, this tech support form is the only way to contact you regarding customer comments, so here goes...
I am a new purchaser of Komplete/Kore bundle and have found the sound of B4 II to be of poor quality because of the 'drive' sound, which is quite nasty and quickly builds to intolerable levels when used in a chord. I have disabled the drive on all presets so that I may use the organ sounds, which are otherwise excellent sounding. According to a thread in your own user forum, many of your customers who used B4 version 1 feel that the 'old' version sounded much better.
Since it has been stated on the forum that NI does not read any of the posts (why in the world don't you?), I have included a link to this particular thread so that you may see that there is a rapidly growing group of users who feel you have dropped the ball with B4 II. Here is the link: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum_us/showthread.php?t=32242

My question is: Can I be permitted to somehow 'downgrade' to version 1 which by all accounts sounds much better? Or will you be updating the software anytime soon with a 'better' drive sound that we can actually use?
I am very happy with all of the other synths from the Komplete package and look forward to hearing B4 when it measures up to the standards of your other modules.
Thank you, Neil Wright

 

necromancer, let us know how it goes with your request to tech support for a downgrade. I also bought B4 based on the rave reviews received about B4. Unfortunately, I bought just after B4II was released.

Dan

 

Hi everyone - newbie poster and Hammond nut here! I got a good deal on a B4, B4II and B4d bundle a while back, but I haven't set the software up yet on my new Core 2 Duo system. However, I did try B4 and B4II on my old system and thought the same as pretty much everyone here regarding the sound of B4II, with one different observation. I thought it was the cabinet modelling that was awful, with nasty resonances on different notes, and with better sounding Leslie models a lot of the overdrive problems might also be solved.

Try this - (from memory) switch the cabinet model to DI and see if you think it sounds more evenly balanced. I know it'll sound very fizzy and, well, DI'd, but I'd try the setup that's been suggested already - B4II, followed by a good overdrive AND speaker sim, followed by B4FX with overdrive & cabinet modelling disabled.

I'm gonna reinstall and give it a go myself! BTW, I have a C3/122 in the studio, so I know what the real deal sounds like...

necromancer, good luck with NI - hope you get your 'down'grade!

Frank

 

Frank

I'm going to take your advice and play around this weekend with separating out the basic B4II package and the cabinets/effects. I'm using WinXP with Sonar 6 as host. At this point I'm not sure if I have a suitable overdrive effect and cabinet simulation in my library. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks,

Dan

 

I have commented on this in the thread: http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/showthread.php?t=46802

 

I wanted to send this thread to native instruments as they said no one has complained. There seems to be a lot of roadblocks to sending a simple e-mail to them
any ideas???