B4D feedback with Ableton Live

Discussion in 'B4 & B4 II' started by trolliflos, Jul 9, 2006.

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  1. trolliflos

    trolliflos New Member

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    I tried to use my B4D with Ableton Live (Mac). I use the B4 II as a VST PlugIn and connected the MIDI out of the B4 through a MIDI track to the B4D input port, and the MIDI out of the B4D to the B4 MIDI track.

    Controlling the B4 with the B4D works fine, only the feedback of the B4 to the B4D (e.g. when selecting a preset) doesn't work:

    When changing single controlles in the B4 the LEDs changes on the B4D. But when I change a preset (cc dump is on!) there is no change in the B4D. I also tried the AU plug, but there is no way to connect the B4 MIDI output.

    When I use the B4/B4D standalone or with Cubase SX all works, so it seams to be a "Live" problem. Has anyone successfully connected the B4 to the B4D when running inside Live?

    Joerg
     
  2. Amyris

    Amyris New Member

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    Same problem with me, but with Cubase SX 3. I connected everything the way that trolliflos did, but the B4D controller does not react to preset changes made in the plugin.

    I am able to controll the plugin via the B4D controller but the controller does not get any feedback by the plugin. Therefor the LEDs do not match the actual preset.

    Can somebody help?
     
  3. trolliflos

    trolliflos New Member

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    With Cubase SX (I use SX 2.2 on OS X) there is no problem:

    For performing the B4 while using the B4D you need three MIDI tracks.

    1. In: MIDI out of your master keyboard, out: B4 II VSTi (for performing the B4)

    2. In: MIDI out of the B4D, out: B4 II VSTi (for sending the controller events from the B4D to the B4)

    and probably missing:

    3. In: B4 II VSTi, out: MIDI in of the B4D (for feedback the controller events from the B4 to the B4D)

    You also must enable "CC DUMP ON PROGRAM CHANGE" on the setup page of the B4.

    All MIDI tracks must be monitored or rec enabled. I think this should work with SX 3 too. You also have to use exclusive MIDI in/out-ports for the B4D, because the MIDI in port of the B4D cannot not be used to connect the keyboard.

    My problem was: This "trick" doesn't work with Ableton Live ... (see my first posting)
     
  4. Amyris

    Amyris New Member

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    Have you set the midi channel of the B4D in the B4 plugin to midi channel 1? Also have you set the midi channel for the B4D input (the signal from the B4 to the B4D) to channel 1?

    It seems that the B4D only reacts to MIDI data which comes in on channel 1.
     
  5. trolliflos

    trolliflos New Member

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    Yes, MIDI channels for the B4D are set to 1: I send the B4D out to channel 1 of the B4 II and send the B4 II out to channel 1 of the B4D input.

    Single controller changes with the B4 II GUI are reflected on the B4D controller. But when I select a preset with the B4D, all led's are turned off. When I select a preset with the B4 II GUI, the B4D doesn't change any LED.

    When I use the B4 II and the B4D inside Cubase SX, all works perfect so I think, it is a "Live" problem! I think I try to contact Ableton's support.

    Thank you Amyris.

    Joerg
     
  6. DanielF

    DanielF Forum Member

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    FWIW, while I am able to get Sonar to properly update the B4D display using the same technique you use for Cubase SX (a separate midi track for outputing the CC dump back to the B4D), I have not found a way to do it for Steinberg V-stack. My provisional conclusion is that V-stack simply does not allow for a VST dumping midi data back to the midi ports.

    One debugging trick I use is to change a B4 preset via the VST application itself (on the computer, not on the B4D), and see if you detect any midi activity on your midi ports. (This would be the CCs being dumped back). In the case of a properly configered Sonar, I see the desired activity, in the case of V-stack I don't.

    Dan
     
  7. DanielF

    DanielF Forum Member

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    I found a workaround for B4D CC feedback, at least in my case (V-stack). In addition to the VST program (V-stack in my case), I run the stand-alone version of B4II. I have two midi ports: one is dedicated to the B4D (midi port 1, both in and out), the other I use for my master keyboard (midi port 2, only the input is needed).
    1. The standalone b4II applicaiton is controlled exclusively by midi port 1, channel 1. Whenever I select a preset on the B4d, the stand-alone application echos the CCs back to the B4d, so the status lights are updated. I had to assign at least one audio output (routing) to an unused output. If both outputs are "not connected", B4II doesn't work. Since the application receives no keyboard midi input, it won't sound anyway.
    2. V-stack (but could be any other application I suppose), accepts as input all midi ports, channel 1. Thus the B4D on midi port 1 is an input, as is a second midi port (channel 1) to which the keyboard controller is attached.

    Thus the B4D sends its midi to both applications, allowing the standalone B4II to update the LEDS, and properly configuring the VST version which is triggered for sound by a second MIDI port (same channel 1) and is routed to active audio outputs.

    It doesn't seem to add a signficant additional load to the CPU.

    Dan
     
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