Bandstand Instrument Malfunction

Hello,

Admittedly, I am a beginner when it comes to MIDI composition and sequencing. But I have been working with computers since the days of the Mac Plus and the 0286 Intel PCs. How far computing has come!

I have a new copy of NI's Bandstand, and at first, I was overwhelmed with the possibilities. I was able to open several old General MIDI files, change the instruments, and listen to the phenomenal results after switching the instruments to some of the samples in the BS library.

Unfortunately, now there is a very annoying problem going on.

For every active channel, there is a piano instrument that plays along with it, regardless of whatever instrument is actually assigned in the channel. For instance, if a channel has been assigned a Steel Guitar, the guitar plays, but so does the piano. This occurs even when I load a single-channel MIDI file with a harpsichord that was assigned to the original file when it was created; the harpsichord loads into BS, and the harpsichord plays back, but so does the piano. It's as if there were another channel with the same music and a piano assigned to it. I don't understand how or why this is happening.

Note: this problem occurs whether I'm using BS in standalone form or as a DXi in Sonar.

Note: PC (Program Changes) is switched OFF in the Play settings.

Note: I'm using only my PC to experiment with MIDI at this time to see if I can get it to work with high quality sounds, such as the samples that come with BS. That means that I don't yet have a MIDI controller or an interface; I'm limited to using the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth at this time. I'll explain that in a minute.

TECH:

PC: Dell Dimension 4400 Pent IV 2 GHz
RAM: 512 MB;
Drives: C: 20 GB (5 GB free); D: 40 GB (3.5 GB free)
Syst: Win XP SP 2

Bandstand: v 1.0.0.015

Other Noteable Software:

Cakewalk Sonar Home Studio 4
Crystal Soft Synth
Adobe Audition 1.5

Bandstand Audio Settings:

Soundcard:
Interface: DirectSound
Sampling: 44100
Output Device: DS SB Live! Wave Device
Latency: 49ms (could probably go lower, but not much)

Routings:
Outputs:
1 - DS SB Live! Wave Device
2 - DS SB Live! Wave Device
3 - Off
4 - Off (should 3 & 4 be off? Tried it; no effect)

MIDI:
Input: Off (SB Live! MIDI VART)(had it on; no effect)

Output:
B: SB Live MIDI Synth - OFF
A: SB Live MIDI Synth - OFF
SB Live MIDI Synth - OFF
Microsoft GS Wavetable Software Synth - ON

I hope one of you can help me solve this problem. The software was working great. But I started to play with DXi, specifically, I tried to add Bandstand to Sonar as a DXi Instrument. That's where the problems started occurring.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

RENEWED INTEREST IN MIDI

I've always had a desire to play piano and keyboard music since I can remember. It is with great regret that I never sat down with a decent piano or keyboard to learn how to play. Yet, whenever listening to contemporary instrumental (aka, new age) artists, such as Bruce BecVar (a very creative and artistic acoustic guitar!), Gandalf (Fantasy (Middle Earth) Keyboards), Medwyn Goodall (never knew panflute could do that), and many, many others, I always felt my heart enjoying that music immensely, and wished that I could learn to play like that!

In 2000, I suffered a mild stroke. For the most part, I survived that. But I lost the fine motor control in my right hand. I can't write or type with it, or do anything that requires fine work with the fingers. This post is being typed at about 40 wpm with the left hand only.

Before the stroke, in 1995, I had been introduced to Music Time, and was very intrigued that it was possible to create music one note at a time using MIDI notation software like that. But, between the tedium of composing that way, and the ultra-cheesy quality of the MIDI playback, I lost interest in it.

Advance ten years: things have really come a long way. And then I was introduced to the Bandstand software. I downloaded the demo tracks and was utterly amazed. Here's what the MIDI track sounds like - General MIDI Soundcard Cheese. But NOW, here's what it sounds like with Bandstand! Man, that was utterly PROFOUND! Such QUALITY! And I can CREATE music in MIDI, and then bring it into Bandstand to get such QUALITY! It was QUITE overwhelming!

Ever since the stroke, I never thought it possible that I could create original music, certainly not without a right hand. I had thought about General MIDI, and using notation software to enter music note for note .. but it would sound so cheesy, nothing I could use for the 'Net, Flash, or video.

But now we have Bandstand, a software sampler where the instruments in General MIDI could be assigned to these high-quality sounds from the sampler library!

I gotta tellya ... these technical problems are quite infuriating when I am so CLOSE to creating quality music. But it's definately motivating to go forward and figure it out.

I've had some pretty steep learning curves over the years. Certainly music notation, MIDI setup and sequencing is probably the most complex thing I've ever had to mess with. Indeed, Sonar's learning curve, for someone like me who is just learning about sequencers, is so steep it's like looking straight up a huge 90 degree incline! How the hell are we ever gonna get up there? Oh yeah ... one note at a time ..

Thanks again for any help you might have, and thanks for listening.

Any other partially disabled musicians out there?

Peter Clemmens
Hartford CT USA

 

Peter, Why "Microsoft GS Wavetable Software Synth - ON" ? That's the cr**py 'soft synth' that comes with Windows and should never be used for anything - you've got Bandstand to provide your sounds. Switch it off. I don't know if that will solve the problem. (NB: With your soundblaster you can use soundfonts which are a zillion times better than the GS Wavetable synth, and Bandstand is a step up again from Soundfonts).

John

PS: If you want to make a giant leap forward from 'one note at a time' midi programming then try PG Music's 'Band In A Box'. There's a free demo on their site.

 

Hi, Skyline,

Thanks for getting back.

As I've said, I'm quite new at MIDI, and I've not quite started figuring out how to get sound fonts to work.

Speaking of sound fonts ... can you recommend any links for tutorials, such as how to install and make work, and also where to get decent free sound fonts?

Tutorials on MIDI in general, at least ones that make sense, are somewhat hard to come by.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

Hi Peter,

"Speaking of sound fonts ... can you recommend any links for tutorials, such as how to install and make work, and also where to get decent free sound fonts?"


Yes - visit my web site and go to the Home Recording page and you'll find all of those. There's a sub-page on how to install soundfonts in a Creative card.

Good luck!
John

 

Hi, John,

I've visited your website and found it to be quite informative. I've also reviewed the Cakewalk Desktop Music Handbook, which you had recommended, and have spent the afternoon tinkering in Sonar HS 4.

I've had success with using SoundFonts, that is, the ones with limited memory that my current configuration can handle. It's unfortunate that I can't load the SGM180v1.5 font, or even the SGM128, because of my limited RAM; I'll have to see about updating that.

I haven't had time to play with Bandstand yet, but I think I might have to reinstall that software and try again.

The more I'm learning, about Bandstand, Sonar, and home recording in general the more I see that I have to learn. It's just like learning an instrument ... it's most certainly not an overnight thing.

Thanks for the help. You've set me on the right path.

If I figure out what's going on with Bandstand, I'll let you know.

-Peter

 

Hey, John,

Problem RESOLVED! It's quite stupid, really; it was right in front of me!

In my File / Audio MIDI / MIDI / Output Interface, I had the following all turned ON:

A. SB Live! MIDI Synth
B. SB Live! MIDI Synth
SB Live! UART

The last one there had the instrument I had chosen for the MIDI Channel I wanted to play. It was Nylon Guitar.

But because the two other devices were also turned on, they were reading the data in the MIDI file, too, with the default Piano instrument instead of the guitar I'd selected. The effect was that a dual echo-piano effect would sound along with the sound of the guitar that I had wanted to play. Most aggravating.

I almost tripped over it when I reviewed the audio settings for the thousandth time. There's three output signals that are sending data to the soundcard. Let's turn a couple of 'em off ... nah, it couldn't be THAT simple? Could it? Oh yeah, it's that simple.

So, in case there's any other beginners like me, here it is agin:

This is INCORRECT:

In my File / Audio MIDI / MIDI / Output Interface, I had the following all turned ON:

Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth - OFF
A. SB Live! MIDI Synth - ON <<-Error
B. SB Live! MIDI Synth - ON <<-Error
SB Live! UART - ON

This is CORRECT:

Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth - OFF
A. SB Live! MIDI Synth - OFF
B. SB Live! MIDI Synth - OFF
SB Live! UART - ON

So, now that Bandstand is fully functional ....

Man, that's totally INCREDIBLE! Do you really mean to say tht I can now start composing MIDI tracks ... and have 'em play with such cool sounding instruments as THAT! That is SO TOTALLY AMAZING!

Take Johan Pochelbel's Canon In D Major, for instance. My, whatta TEDIOUS lil' ditty to listen to in Gen MIDI w/t MS Wave Tables ... but what a truly beautiful piece of music it is, especially when you change the instruments around to sweeten it to your taste. There were 3 pianos in the piece. I traded two of them, one for a vibraphone, which when I added a bit of reverb and chorus made it into a very dreamy, spatial, kinda like a chamber music piece; and the other piano I traded for a harpsichord, which added a vary baroque, Mannheim Steamroller effect to the piece. And the violin and the strings are violins and strings; not some screechy fingernails-on-a-chalkboard effect.

There is a program here, in the States that's called Hearts of Space (www.hos.com). Back in the '80s, this program was started that featured some of the best in new age, electronic music that became better known as Space Music. Some of the more interesting artists they've had on there are Tangerine Dream, Mike Oldfield, Patrick O'Hearn, Bruce BecVar, William Aura, etc.

For their 100th program, back in the day, they entitled that program, "A Pochelbel Convocation". In the course of the program, they sampled 8 of the various versions of the Canon in D they had collected over the years.

There was the "Definitively Rich Warm French Romantic Treatment" by the Jean Francais Piard Chamber Orchestra, a "playful treatment" by the All Star Percussion Ensemble, "An Electronic Space Cruiser" version by Tomita, and "A Dreamy, Spacey Extended Version" by San Francisco Bay Area Artist, Daniel Kolbialka.

So now I have another version of the Canon in D to add to the list. I've created my own version. This will be a landmark in my life, the day I learned how to create high quality music.

So now I have to get me a decent notation software and start playing around with a few chords and riffs.

As for Bandstand, yeah, you get a GOLD STAR, man! Way cool stuff.

 

Peter,
I'm glad you got it sorted! Unfortunately with these things it always boils down to something simple but not immediately apparent.
PS: I'd invest in more memory - 2Gb runs Bandstand much better.

Check back if you need more help.

John