1. Please do not install macOS 10.15 Catalina yet, as Native Instruments software and hardware products are not supported under macOS 10.15 yet. For more info, please go HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

Beat Grids Are Still Shifting!

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by cutmoney, Dec 13, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    Not a problem. I'll be happy to bring my computer to Germany if you want (I bet my brother will as well) so we can reproduce it. Just send me the ticket and I'll be there ASAP! :)

    The thing is, there has just been a lot of useless chatter about how to set a grid, what format to use/not use, etc. which is really irrelevant to the problem, etc. (I'm not saying that Phil was asking this kind of stuff) especially in light of the movie that Cutmoney posted. I mean, we're MORE than happy to do anything that will help solve the issue. I just want to help rule out the stuff that ISN'T the problem here (which should lead to a quicker identification of the problem).
     
  2. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,752
    lol, i would if i could! ;)

    you know we have to rule out the easiest things (and you're long enuff here to know how often it's due to wrong set or understood beatgrid!!)

    but you can be sure that this is adressed and NI is aware of the movie too.
     
  3. ::G::

    ::G:: Forum Member

    Messages:
    96
    is there a "POST-PRODUCTION to FIX badly ripped vinyls or UNstable BPM's in tracks" Topic or i can make one?..
    cause i think everything starts from there...
     
  4. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    Yeah I can't reproduce this.... YET!!!
    I'm trying to rule out the obvious things and confirm the configuration is solid. As we try to find the root cuase I want to be sure the field of view is and small as possible and that we have tested all possible sources. Its fine to say it can't be reproduced by others but it does not make the issue less real for those that experience it. I think there is a narrow case in T3 where the problem can occur and I want to progressively exclude all factors.

    One factor that is possible is that there is some kind of platform dependency issue; i.e. is this problem MAC specific? I would love to hear from people running on PC's that can confirm the exact behavior and circumstance laid out above.

    I really wanna find this problem but I need to exclude all possibilities. GMints description and analysis is vital info. More testing is now needed on my end.

    @Gmint what soundcards are you using BTW what Audio device? Core or Hardware drivers?
     
  5. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    I disagree... both guys know their sh$t when it comes to music preparation. I think other things are at play here but don't know what. Platform is one possibility but like all other causes we lack sufficient info to prove conclusively what is going on.

    Lets take care not to jump to conclusions.

    Phil
     
  6. ::G::

    ::G:: Forum Member

    Messages:
    96
    no conclusion phil , my post was irrelevant to the guys problem,i was referring to the ability of using acid or some editor to fix shifting bpms.. [cause by bad rips bad production or whatever...we've talked about this again in the past]
     
  7. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    Ahh gotchya! Yeah you make a good point Although done well Ableton can help flatten a track that is clean but insteady.

    Phil
     
  8. ::G::

    ::G:: Forum Member

    Messages:
    96
    we just have to figure out how heh
     
  9. jmugu

    jmugu Forum Member

    Messages:
    210
    I use Live 5 for that and getting great results. With the new warping in version 5 is fast and precise!
     
  10. ::G::

    ::G:: Forum Member

    Messages:
    96
    could you send me an email @ gkatsanos@gmail.com to give me more info about this please?..
     
  11. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    Phil, both Cut Money and I use FireWire Audiophiles. In the past, I have used the M-Audio driver until I had an issue where it crashed Traktor. Since that time, I've switched to a Core Audio aggregate device at the instruction of NI support. On the other hand, Cut Money has always had good luck with the Audiophile driver and he continues to use it. However, I can also experience the problem when running through the internal soundcard as I believe was the case when Cut Money captured the video..
     
  12. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    I tested the hell out of my Traktor setup in the last few days trying to generate the problem with my tracks. I have not been able to, which in a odd way, is good. First off I've not tried AAC files, by design.
    If possible can you send me an AAC file you currently see problems with. I'm expecting that I will find problems with it, incdicating the problem is possibly file type specific. wee shall see...

    Phil
     
  13. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    Phil,

    OK, now I've been testing a bit as well and I *think* that the problem is AAC specific. Also, in response to your earlier questions. The BPM is locked at 100% and remains so after the grid shifts, the BPM also remains the same after shifting. The file I'm sending you (Billie Jean) doesn't have a perfect grid because the BPM waivers (I haven't bothered setting multiple grid markers because what's the point if they're going to shift), but I can reproduce the problem with this file each and every time.

    Let me know if there is anything else I can help with...
     
  14. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    Thanks mate I expect you are going to right on the money. I'll give it a bash after Dinner tonight. Dollars to Dognuts I verify what you are seeing in mere moments ;)

    Phil
     
  15. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    It took me less than 3 mins to reproduce your problem. I can now see what you see. The problem is not the Beatgrid Shifting, it stays in exactly the same position relative to the tracks absolute zero position but the Waveform underneath is not being drawn properly. The probem is very definitely a traktor issue! With your permission I would like to send the AAC file to NI to demonstrate the problem. I'll file the bug report tomorrow. Interestingly, the file when converted to MP3 does not exhibit this problem and the file also passes the AAC spec tests. Glad to finally understand the problem!

    Also I just found the same behavior with FLAC files.

    Phil
     
  16. choppa222

    choppa222 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I am having the same problem now and again(only with AAC though) - I have managed to reslove it by trimming the silence from the front and back of the track. Not ideal though! Try writing the tag to the mp3 and then see if it happens.
     
  17. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    GO AHEAD!!! Just so you know, I already did file the bug report and attempted to upload the same file to NI, however I think it might have been too big to go through the website. In any case, I'm glad we're finally on the same page and I really appreciate your diligence!
     
  18. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    Cool thanks for putting up with me while I ruled out the obvious and closed out all the things that I knew Friedemann and the developers would ask about.

    I'll get the bug report filed in the morning.

    Phil
     
  19. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    You know, the thing I can't understand is how more people haven't experienced this. Maybe it just boils down to a very few number of people using AAC, but if you've got any AAC tracks at all, this would seem to be a real PITA.

    Also, I did want to point out something about your diagnosis of the stripe moving. You're certainly right, but I don't believe that it's just the visual waveform moving, I believe the audio is shifting as well. At least as I am experiencing it, when the shifting happens and I cue to the beat marker, I'm cueing from a different part in the audio file, i.e. NOT on the beat. I just wanted to clarify a bit.
     
  20. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,073
    Yeah definitely the waveform id moving out of time Its not as simple as a an ood redraw issue. Iff you jump back and cue to the Beatmarker then play the audio plays back out of time with the other deck of you wind the deck back and forth to lineup things again its OK so its not just visual.

    Phil
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.