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Beat Grids

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by haze324, Oct 13, 2010.

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  1. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    262
    Is NI pursuing flexible/warpable beat grids for the S4. I know NI is very reluctant to say yes or no to these types of questions, but for this to really compete with Ableton style set ups or The Bridge, NI really needs to offer comparable griding features. Is this something currently under development of something NI feels the S4 can do without and still function great.
     
  2. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    11,997
    NI definitely IS pursuing a warp-like feature. Its on the road map.
    Unfortunately theres currently no info where on the development highway this feature is. I dont even know if its been started, i hope it has.

    Im not sure flexible grids is in the same category as The Bridge but its certainly the killer feature that (with all the other features) will make Traktor unparalleled in the DJ software category.

    Karlos (stealing interent at a friends house)
     
  3. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    Karlos,

    I run into you on all my threads. Next time I'll just give you give you a call.
    :)
     
  4. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    11,997
    It's why I'm here dude... :)
     
  5. Bramble

    Bramble Forum Member

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    I'm pretty new with Traktor (picking up my S4 end of this week, I hope), but can somebody please explane to me why you have to manually set a beatgrid? I mean, if you load a track, Traktor will analyze it for you, right?
     
  6. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    11,997
    Welcome To The Forum.

    There is an option in Preferences for Traktor to set a Beatgrid automatically when a track is analysed.

    The Auto Grid works pretty well on music that is 4/4 but isnt always correct on more complex or subtle rhythms.

    The Auto Grid is also set at a point before the track actually starts and many people prefer to put the Grid on the first downbeat of a track.

    If the Auto grid works for you then use it, its a time saving feature. Most people set them by hand because they prefer to know its correct and set in the place they want and also set on a Hot Cue number they prefer.

    Hope That Helps

    Karlos
     
  7. Bramble

    Bramble Forum Member

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    389
    Ah I get it. You mean breakcore and that kind of music.

    Well, setting the right que pont isn't that much work after loading a track, so I don't mind that.

    I play techno, so for the few tracks that can't be analyzed, I'll just have to beatmatch.
     
  8. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    11,997
    If Traktor doesnt set a correct beatgrid you will be able to see it so you can simply adjust the AutoGrid.

    Techno will grid easily.
    Tracks than have very low frequencies can also be incorrectly Autogridded due to the nature of the beat not being so obvious.
     
  9. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    so when are the grids getting warp like functions

    :)
     
  10. Bramble

    Bramble Forum Member

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    Sorry for being a n00b, but what this warp function means? I know it's in Ableton, but that's all. :cool:
     
  11. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    Warpable, flexible, elastic, etc. means you can fluctuate the BPM of the grids. Right now Traktor has static grids. Which means if you set your grid for 128bpm’s that’s what you have, a grid that from start to finish is 128.

    Well what happens if mid-way thru the song your actual bpm changes to 128.10 at first your grids will be fine but by the end of the song your grids will be way off. Another example is what if there is point in the song that brings in some vocals and the beat does not stay at 128 thought out. When the vocals start and the beat starts again your grid is going to be way off. There’s plenty of examples.

    What warpable means is that you can make an “elastic” grid. You can have grids at 128 and when it goes to 128.10 you can change the grid from that point on to be 128.10. If your song is 128 and the vocals are now at 110 lets say, as soon as the beat starts again you can start a new 128 grid from that beat forward.

    These types of grids are a HUGE tool. I have no doubt that Traktor is working on this. They have to, in order to continue to keep with and challenge the other softwares out. I just like to bring this up once in a while to remind them, users DO want this and need it when other softwares already have it.

    So how soon? Hopefully one of next years updates they have planned with timecode support or sampler function for Traktor Pro. They have a few updates already listed as coming soon.
     
  12. Bramble

    Bramble Forum Member

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    So again, I don't have to worry about this when playing techno, given the fact the BPM is constant.
     
  13. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    I don't have a caclulator on me for an exact figure, but i'd say that about 90-95% the auto grid is correct on EDM 4/4 music. sometimes you'll find a song that has grids on down beats while another has it on a snare so it sounds funny when you sync. And the flexible grids will only come into play if a song drifts which is not too common but happens once in a while, but is easily fixable.

    Long story short - the grids are really good as they are, but not 100% perfect all the time. Warpable grids would make them great, and NI has it on the development roadmap.
     
  14. sebastiannz

    sebastiannz Forum Member

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    good explanation.

    i find the auto grid is pretty solid on traktor but yeah it isn't as powerful as warp in ableton for the reasons you outline.

    possibly one of the reasons its not in there is its a little more resource intensive than the current auto grid. personally i would prefer traktor to slim down its resource use if at all possible...streamlined software is much more stable :)
     
  15. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    funny you mention that. I don't think Traktor is all that resource intensive. I've played a 4 hour set on a netbook with zero issues.

    I also enjoy using Itch. Being able to scratch on an NS7 and VCI-300 steered me in that direction. Well Itch is a VERY basic application as far as features are concerend but the colored waveforms and internal mix engine are resource hogs. It also has warpable grids, but currently they've had issues in their latest release with audio drops and one of the intermediate fixes was a less resource intesive release of Itch.

    i've never been able to run Itch on my netbook and the application itself does not offer the amount of features that TP does.

    Perhaps you're correct - adding the warpable grids would slow down the software and that's why we haven't seen it yet.
     
  16. sebastiannz

    sebastiannz Forum Member

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    ^that is quite interesting. Maybe that is why there are no coloured waveforms in traktor despite everyone saying that it is the main thing itch has over traktor.

    Main reason I don't want traktor to get any more resource intensive is after watching the videos of the s4 being used with a mac book pro I realised how slow my own setup is in comparison, e.g. scrolling through the playlist is smooth as silk on a mac book but on mine it's a bit hitchy. i'm using a dell 1525 with 2 gigs of ram and a dual core 1.6 cpu. not too bad mind you but i'm a bit of a perfectionist :)
     
  17. photojojo

    photojojo Forum Member

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    719
    Crazy talk, I seem to have more problems with Techno than anything else. :confused: Of course I don't even try to grid my funk and other such stuff, but out of all of my EDM Techno with all it's blips and crackly sounds seems to be the worse for me. And I find that 98% of my stuff needs a click or two on the grid mark to get just right. I thnk it would work okay without the little nudges, but I want it just right.
     
  18. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    I'm gonna post a feature request and post a link so you guys can please post on it requesting warpable grids.

    If you really want to see the difference I strongly recommend for you guys to download Itch. It's free (for playing one deck). Check out who the warpable grids are and how SUPER easy it is to grid with those waveforms. You can grid funk, hip hop, you name it. Think about it....we are placing VISUAL grid lines based on sounds. I can grid a song in Itch without ever having to listen to it. Seriously check it out. If S4 implements this in the future it would be a heaven sent application and would BLOW away the competion.

    I'll post something now.
     
  19. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    It's been requested many times, try adding a +1 to one of those threads
     
  20. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121362

    Please post +1 on the link above.

    LP - I just did a search and all of those threads are closed. I found that troubling. There were threads requesting this feature over a year old and most of the answers were along these lines;

    "There are 100s of pages on this subject.

    Not only has it been discussed it has NIs full attention as it has already been mentioned on the OTR that NI are looking into this form of time-stretching for a future update of Traktor (no time span given)."

    and then the thread was closed. Why would the thread be closed if the topic and request is still open --- hell it's still open a year later with no real answer. The above is not an answer, it's a brush off.

    If this is such a requested feature I would think it would warrant a better response. At a minimum leave the thread open so others can support the request.
     
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