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Beat Grids

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by haze324, Oct 13, 2010.

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  1. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    To answer one of your questions, NI have already stated they are developing elastic beatgrids.
     
  2. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    I understand but members should still be encouraged to request desried features so that NI understands the amount of users requesting this and can properly prioritze their workload.

    Closing threads, or saying this has been asked 100 times, they already know. Is not the right response either.
     
  3. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    10,600
    TBH I agree with you. Didn't realize the threads were dead. Someone may add to the discussion, ie come up with a better way of implementing it etc.
     
  4. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    i'm gridding hiphop without any issues... gridding my vinyls? NO problem at all.
    in the tracks with unsteady bpm that i have i grab loops to mix with and it's all super.

    in traktor, i'm gridding visually, too. what's the difference?

    i agree that having elastic grids would be nice here and there, but for the majority of tracks it's just not needed if you know how to grid. i'm gridding a track within seconds.
     
  5. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    DJ Freshfluke,

    Thanks for your input I value what the mods here say, however I didn’t think you would provide such a defensive response. I hope this is not how all feature requests are answered, especially one that according to all the similar request posted on this forum, is one that is heavily sought out by Traktor users. Basically you just told me that although it would be nice to have for rare tracks, you can do it in 30 seconds so it’s not needed.

    Do you have a video you can share with us on how you grid your tracks within seconds. I’ve done numerous searches on this forum and on youtube and none of videos provides a process that takes seconds. I saw someone posted a vid on the main forum, I have yet to check that one out. It would be great if the video was not an EDM 4/4 song also.

    I would also add that because you can do it in second does not mean that there are no better systems out there for gridding. I recommend you check out a free version of Itch and compare that gridding to Traktor. I’m really not saying this as a smartass --- I would like for you to check it out and let me know what you think. I personally think it’s far superior and would love to have a similar gridding feature in Traktor. With your experience, if you can do it similarly in Traktor please let me know, especially songs that are not 4/4.

    Hey maybe my gridding really does sucks (in Traktor).

    Look forward to your results.
    (and your 30 sec. video)
     
  6. Zac Kyoti

    Zac Kyoti NI Product Owner

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    Yeah, Freshfluke - I don't mean to be a dick, and mean this with all due respect, but I found your response strange as well. In any given generic gig where I might be playing a combination of edm, rock, funk and soul, I run into a healthy (sometimes VERY healthy) percentage of tracks that can't be gridded with Traktor's static grids. In fact, I run into plenty of tracks that can have one solid loop, but no more than that, because the bpm is too far out at any other section. I know the technique you're talking about, just looping sections to mix with - I use it all the time, but it IS a stop-gap measure. Musically, it also does not always make sense musically to have to jump back to your only solid loop.

    It's true that static grids may not be a big deal for people playing only modern computer-clocked edm (but even then sections can drift), but for people playing a variety of styles we run into these problems (barring manually beatmatching while in the mix) :

    1) Being limited to mixing at one loop point, if lucky you can get two at the same bpm.

    2) No guarantee the bpm optimal loop(s) are actually sections you'd want to mix with.

    3) Most important: Sections in between loops have a drifting grid. This means NO synced effects, and NO creative cutting and mixing throughout those sections (and this is usually most of the track).

    Personally, I can't wait for Traktor to have elastic grids. I spend most of my time in preparation (for non-edm) working on dialing in two loops with the restriction of one bpm, and the results are not always great. Elastic grids gives us the best of Ableton, still working with Traktor's spontaneous flow. And it would put Traktor on top of the heap, hands down, for a long, long time.
     
  7. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    I don't have video, but I can tell you that if the track is flat, seconds is literally all it takes. If you know the track is flat you can fine adjust the grid on the fly as you play the track. I do, and have done so for years. The S4 controller make it even easier to do so.

    There are several hotkeys needed to be able to do this. Set / delete gridmarker, Move gridmarker forward and backward, Track BPM Increase and Track BPM Decrease, Deck Beat Tick on / off and Lock grid on off. Set those hotkeys and use them often and you'll quickly be able to set grids on the fly. I do all these on my keyboard. When adjusting BPM I have two keys per deck (W,E for deck A - I,O for deck B - A,S for Deck C and and K,L for deck D) I have 4 ranges of BPM adjustment from Min to Coarse and also the same for move grid marker. Easy...

    Phil
     
  8. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    Ive never had trouble Gridding tracks.
    I do it at my gigs, if i load a track i havent previously gridded ill grid it whilst the other track plays (i remember someone on the Beta List being amazed that some of us grid during a gig).

    But, despite all that, Traktor NEEDS a warp like feature and it needs it now.

    Traktor appeals to such a broad church of DJs these days from the EDM guys to Stinking dirty Metal DJs. Theres a usage case for being able to grid fluctuating tracks.

    No excuses anymore. This has to be the next big step. It will be the death-nell of all the competition in my view.

    NI have said they are already looking into it. Im confident that we will see this feature in Traktor in 2011.
    Thats just my guess. Its my hope. Nothing more.
     
  9. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    Phil thanks for the tips. Why do say the S4 controller makes it easer?

    Yeah in Itch I grid on the fly all the time, but haven't tried on Traktor --- need some more practice with hotkeys.

    Karlos - your predictions are usually pretty close. Even your photoshop controller a while back was pretty close! hahahhaha. I'll keep my fingers crossed for 2011 (and not December 2011!)
     
  10. bigbeatzz

    bigbeatzz Forum Member

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    I really hope elastic gridding comes to fruition with not only traktor but maschine as well. The keylock in traktor is already really good we just need the ability to properly grid non 4 on the floor tracks. I play mostly house and techie stuff but I love playing old disco and cool live tracks for fun. I really do think it's a huge request we need to see soon. NI I am sure you can use the same technology for the 2 products that are in need of this feature.

    I also agree with Haze...although traktor is more feature rich, Itch's beatgridding beats the pants off of traktor. With Itch 1.7 its as easy as cueing up to a downbeat and hitting letter x on the keyboard to set the point. Another great thing is that the grids do not take up cue points.

    Ok 3am time for bed...night!
     
  11. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    No 30 second beatgridding tutorial from FreshFluke.

    Just a Halloween video?
     
  12. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    you can get a video, if that helps you.

    i'm not saying elastic grids is not needed, but it's overrated, since estimated 80 percent of all traktor users play some kind of edm or hiphop, which is easily griddable (with only very few exceptions).

    to those other 20 percent, who play soul, funk, older rock (newer stuff like from linking park etc. is usually quantized) etc., elastic grids will mean a lot and that's why i'm voting for it.

    my experience from the forum, however, is that most gridding problems were not due to the fact that the tracks werent griddable, but user error. and this wont be cured by elastic grids... that's why i'm a bit so-so on that matter.
     
  13. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    FreshFluke.....honestly I think a video from an experienced user would be helpful if it's for a genre other than EDM. Most of the vids out there are for easy 4/4 tracks.

    I was just being a smartass about the halloween vid. Cool vid with the samples.

    I didn't think much of elastic grids and the gridding in Traktor until I tried the one in Itch. Serious **** -- if you have a few minutes download it and check it out. I think you'll see that there are better methods that what we have now. If a better method/tool exist we should make efforts to move forward.
     
  14. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    can you recommend a window-recording software for win? the alternative would be to record from screen with my cam, but that'll probably not that good quality, but could try that too.
     
  15. Count Zero

    Count Zero ModerAUtor Moderator

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    The only one I know about is Cam Studio.
     
  16. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    I'm not smart with the video recording stuff at all.

    Thanks for looking into this though.
     
  17. photojojo

    photojojo Forum Member

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    Same here
     
  18. rainerh

    rainerh NI Product Owner

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  19. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    thx guys, i'll try that and get up sth today.
     
  20. haze324

    haze324 Forum Member

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    thanks FF!
     
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