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Behringer FCB1010 Midi Pedal with Guitar Rig

Discussion in 'GUITAR RIG' started by mosaic, Aug 5, 2004.

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  1. Fill Brisell

    Fill Brisell NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    999
    RigKontrol should have the capability to send MIDI bacause some users prefer a combination of GuitarRig and hardware with MIDI capabilities, like effect racks and even some amps. You could remote control GuitarRig AND these devices with one step then (i.e. switch amp channel together with GR effects). Wouldn't that be nice? Actually it's bizarre that NI has opted this out. Currently you can only do this with a third party MIDI foot controller like the FCB1010. This is still not as easy as it appears however. Since GuitarRig software is fixed in OMNI mode it will pick up any MIDI messages, also those intended for perhaps your amp only. To filter these out is more than a basic task unfortunately, and has to be done in a separate app (which can program the FCB1010). A RigKontrol with MIDI send and good MIDI routing software to boot would be the top solution IMO.

    You do need some device with a MIDI IN socket.
     
  2. jg_guitar

    jg_guitar NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    218
    You are right but you don't really need a separate app to program the FCB1010. You can program the unit manually. I manually programmed one bank and with the mapping capabilties of GR I haven't had the need to program any additional banks. Granted that if did this often it would be much easier to program with a software app.
     
  3. darc

    darc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    593
    "another question. is it possible to connect MIDI pedal to my laptop using USB? I have an external soundcard without MIDI in\out... and it's connected wo my laptop with USB. and my laptop doesn't have midi in\out as well if you know what i mean."

    OK... I don't quite know what you mean actually. But here's the bottom line: if you go with the RK2 or RK3, you'll have all you need, in that control signals and audio go straight to USB. You won't have MIDI, as Fill notes, but this doesn't matter unless you want to work with other hardware or software that accepts MIDI. If you're just running Guitar Rig, RK2/3 is a perfect solution, and IMO a lot of bang for the buck.

    If you buy an FCB1010 or other MIDI controller, you will need a MIDI to USB converter. Why there isn't a product like the FCB that connects direct to USB by now... well that's a real head-scratcher right there.
     
  4. leho57

    leho57 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    that is actually great news. do any of you happen to have a spare rig kontrol 2 or 3 that you don't use?
     
  5. terry1

    terry1 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    342
    Mosaic

    Well you finally have your wish 4 years later. Sort of!
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GuitarRig3SOcg/
     
  6. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    All this talk of the FCB1010, I thought I'd put in my 2 cents about my recent project...

    Quick history, I live in Australia, but brought a FCB from US. Recently I blew the power supply (my own fault). In the midst of changing the supply, I started to mod my FCB, and mod it, and mod it, now its something completely different and works fantastic, so here goes....


    For starters, view the attached thumbnail for a diagram/pic of the current state of my FCB.
    Ok, so I have unscrewed the MIDI ports and glued them to the plate inside the FCB. This is constantly connected to a MIDI-to-USB converter that goes to a USB Hub (both of which are also inside the unit)
    I hot-glued the USB Hubs output to one of the holes left by the MIDI ports I moved.

    Now, I don't use any Switch 1 / Switch 2 functions of the FCB, so I thought I'd make use of one of these ports function as a Guitar input. This then goes through to the chipboard I took out of my Line 6 XPS-Mini to power my guitar (because I use a Line 6 Variax, which requires power or batteries, and I HATE batteries. Note: any 'normal' guitar doesn't need this chipboard)

    Then after the XPS-Mini board, the output goes to my Behringer UCG102 Guitar Link chipboard, which is my notebooks interface for recieving Guitar input. Now, the UCG102 has an output, but I do not use it as I get equal sound and better latency via my notebooks Line Out using the ASIO4ALL application)

    Anyway, the UCG102 is a USB device, so any guesses where that plugs into?... the Hub!

    And thats it! Now my FCB simply needs a power cable to run. And I put my Guitar input into it (making it handy as when playing its good to be hooked directly to your fx pedal)
    And finally, one single USB cable sends my FCB commands and my digitized guitar signal to my notebook.



    Btw, my board may look a bit messy with cables wrapped around here and there, but I have kept every part unchanged so that I can revert anything back to normal when I choose to sell the products, etc.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. darc

    darc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    593
    Great stuff, Rhys! Now if only there were a way to tap part of the USB power and get the FCB to function without the AC line, I'd be pretty happy with that solution. (Of course, I'd have to buy a new FCB, as I've long since mangled the original circuits...)
     
  8. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    Yeah I was trying to consider that.
    Whilst repairing the supply I went through using a new supply, a bunch of batteries, and considered USB power.
    Batteries could work still If I bypass the supply and make a plug in pack for them, but USB won't as I'd need 3 ports just to drain the 15V the FCB and XPS Mini units need together.

    Great in theory, but just couldnt do it
     
  9. darc

    darc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    593
    Yah, power is always a stumbling block when I try to come up with 1-cable (or better still, wireless) solutions. And if you're running a laptop, you've got to consider the impact on the laptop's battery life anyway, so there's another tradeoff...
     
  10. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    Yeah. somehow piggy-backing off the notebook power would be great, but isn't really an option with USB an my modded fcb. So far i've slimmed down my rig considerably in regards to cabling, etc, but still feel i have to much to set up each jam... lol
     
  11. leho57

    leho57 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    sorry to bother again, but do you have a spare RK pedal for sell?
     
  12. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    Who are you addressing leho57?
     
  13. darc

    darc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    593
    leho: "sorry to bother again, but do you have a spare RK pedal for sell?"

    I'd keep an eye on eBay, although I don't see anything there right now. There must be folks who've upgraded to RK3 and have RK2's lying around, but maybe they're keeping them as back ups. Meanwhile, you always have the option of buying a new one from NI's website ("shop" page). $289 is arguably a little steep, but for all the functionality you get, I still think it's a good value. It will be an amazing value if NI can come through with proper MIDI conversion.

    Rhys: "Yeah. somehow piggy-backing off the notebook power would be great, but isn't really an option with USB an my modded fcb. So far i've slimmed down my rig considerably in regards to cabling, etc, but still feel i have to much to set up each jam... lol"

    I know exactly what you mean, and this is where I find the RK2/3 so impressive. It really gets a lot done on one USB cable. That's why (I'll say it again) I'd be so happy to see that control signal made available to a virtual MIDI port in addition to the proprietary GR control signal.

    (In fact, I see no reason why anything besides the expression pedals should be anything *but* MIDI. But there's no need muck up their whole spec. The two protocols - MIDI and whatever NI is using - should be able to coexist peacefully.)
     
  14. leho57

    leho57 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    ok, last time i checked there were'nt a possibility to buy only RK. i've already bought the software...
    and ebay, since I live in Estonia, thats really far far away from US, most of the guys on ebay are not willing to send this stuff here...
     
  15. darc

    darc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    593
    Well, I checked the NI website just before I last posted, and it's definitely there for $289. I'd post a link, but you've got to go through their sequence of pages that ask about your location etc. Unless there's a specific problem with availability in Estonia, I'd double-check the NI site. If that doesn't pan out, consider calling or e-mailing them.
     
  16. GTO

    GTO New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Can someone help me out?

    I want to make the UP & DOWN buttons on my FCB1010 activate "Previous Sound" and "Next Sound" so I can switch between presets.

    Any suggestions for a complete midi noob?
     
  17. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    Hey GTO, it can't be done sorry.

    The UP / DOWN buttons on the FCB have nothing to do with MIDI at all, they just control the current bank the FCB is on (00 to 09, or 00 to .08 if using UnO).

    These buttons do not send any output to other devices, including GR3
     
  18. GTO

    GTO New Member

    Messages:
    14
    OK thanks RhysPatto, that's a damn shame.

    I've just ordered an Uno so hopefully I'll get a bit more functionality out of the FCB.


    EDIT
    One problem I've just noticed is that when I set GR to learn an expression peddle it isn't saved (yes I am clicking save) and I have to do it all again when I start GR up.
     
  19. RhysPatto

    RhysPatto NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    199
    GTO, I dunno if you have the same issue as me.

    My expression pedals save (one controls master volume, the other controls patch-stuff (wah, fx, etc)), but sometimes when i open GR3 its been moved down one spot in the Expression Assignment section. This seems to be a software bug. Then it takes about 6 reopenings & reassignings to get it to save properly again. Weird.

    Also, UnO is a pretty cool option, I used to use it, but took it out as my version didn't cooperate with the FCB1010 Sysex Software, and programming by hand (*feet, lol) is way to tedious.

    I currently use the standard FCB chip, with every button sending nothing but an appropriate Note On/Off. I use some software called Bomes Midi Translator Pro and it does all the work for me. Because it can even control mouse movements, etc, I can do even more advanced no-hands-GR3-stuff. I even made the first expression pedal send out 2 commands, so it acts like a real WahWah with a 'switch' to turn it on or off.

    Anyway, good luck GTO
     
  20. GTO

    GTO New Member

    Messages:
    14
    I was hoping that the UnO eprom would give me more of a "real" stomp box feel but so far sadly not. I want to be able to step through the patches with 2 pedals (i.e. pedal 5 = Next Sound, pedal 10 = Previous Sound) then use the other pedals to turn effects on/off.

    The problem is that when I click learn on "Next Sound" and press pedal 5 GR3 just switches to patch 5 and as I'm a total noob with midi I don't know how to make the FCB send the right signals to GR3.

    I’ll see if I can get hold of Bomes, maybe that will make life easier.
     
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