Best controller keyboard for B4 / B4 II?

Anyone know if this exists:

61-key
"waterfall" Hammond-style keys
Drawbars, or 9 faders that can function as drawbars
Organ-style switches for rotor, percussion, vibrato, brake
Synth pitch/mod wheel for playing other sounds
Expression pedal input
complete MIDI implementation

The keyboardist I work with currently uses a Roland VK-7. The VK-7 works OK but it has crappy synth-style keyboard, the organ control switches don't send MIDI CCs (have to use a footwitch for rotor speed, with a kludgey MIDI merge since the footswitch can only send Mod wheel on the "orchestra" channel), no pitch/mod wheels...

I've seen the Roland VK-8 and the new Hammond XK1 - great features but it's a shame to pay $1595/$1495 respectively, for a sound engine that won't be used. Surely there is a market for a MIDI controller keyboard aimed geared towards organ, but with other features that would make it a perfect second controller for a keyboardist who gigs with softsynths.

Maybe Novation or Fatar or someone can step up to the plate here, with a keyboard that sells for $500 or so....

B

 

A lot of the controllers don't have memory for the programming. I found the Edirol PCR-M80 61 via reading reviews by other owners who needed a controller to control several software synths. It only has 8 sliders but everything on the board is programmable. I'm using it for B411 and have no probs, of course I don't play in bands any longer as I'm on disability because of several severe auto accidents, spinal injuries really slow you down.
Check out the Sweetwater Pro Gear Winter Cat, they have pro boards.
nu.

 

In my opinion one of the best MIDI controller prepared to work with B4/ B4 II is one of the CME UF line products. I have one of them- UF 5 and it works with B4 GREAT!!!! 9 fully programmed sliders you can use as a drwabars plus 9 faders you can controll any hammond effect you want. Keyboard is great semi-weight, metal case and THE PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check it When you compare it with ediroll or m-audio you will say these products sucks and CME UF rulez

greetings

 

With regards to the CME unit, there are NO buttons. Is there any way to access presets on this unit? If not, I will hold out for the new m-audio Axiom61 with semi-weighted keys, multiple buttons, and 9 assignable sliders. Studiologic is also coming out with a fully weighted 61 key board with 9 assignable sliders and multiple buttons, but it's a little pricey and weighs 30 lbs.

 

A Hammond organ keys are not fully weighted, nor are they semi, I always thought they were between synth and semi. I owned three back in the 70's, a B3 and two B4's.
So if you buy a board with weighted keys it positively will not have the playability of a Hammond.
I'm still looking for a good controller too. From what I remember about Hammonds, they did not have buttons, knobs and draw bars, and toggle switches.
nu

 

I have access to a real B3, so it is (too) easy to compare key "feel". That said, I do not think they are necessarily "best", most important is that you like the keys.

Sadly, I have the impression that the controllers that have a good setup on faders, etc etc has not-so-good keys and vice versa, and real waterfall are almost non-existent. Most non-weighted keys are too light both too my taste and compared to the original. I have found some good keys on second-hand boards that are not intended as controllers - my own 20-year old Yamaha DX7 is not bad at all. I would advise you to try several kinds of keyboards, both new and second hand, and buy the one that feels right, and complete it with an additional controller for faders, knobs, cowbells ant other stuff. If you cannot afford the ridicolously priced B4D there are good alternatives, for example the Evolution Uk33c (I think that was it at least).

 

Hand off the evolution UC-33.
I bought it as drawbarcontroller for B4 and II. But with the 9 faders being spread so wide you wont have fun playing with drawbars. You can grab 3 drawbars at the same time, that's it. So, if you are used to hammond organs or clones with nice drawbars keep this in mind.
I would prefer the mididrawbar system from VOCE. But it is pretty rare.
Just my 2cs.
best wishes
borntob4

 

I'm going to check out the UC-33, Studiologic has a new controller out VMK161, 61 keys drawbars,(sliders) very close together. Waterfall keys and rotory control, everything for a Hammond player. Too expensive for me though, wish I were still able to work for a living and didn't need a new spine, thats life.
I wish I had kept all my old synths, Prophets, Moogs, and Yamaha's, only the best.
Thanks for all the controller suggestions.
cheers,
nukeys

 

The vmk series from Fatar hat full weighted hammer action keys.
No way to play organ.
Second time: Hands Off.

Borntob4

 

haven't tried doepfer yet, but they have an organ keyboard: http://www.doepfer.de/D3.htm

 

You could pick up a used Korg full fledged CX3 organ relatively cheap. It is great. As it is a COPY of the Hammond layout. You can midi learn the positions for all the draw bars etc., etc.

I use it to color the NI B4 and drive a Korg Karma also. I use a Motu Timepiece AV which allows different set ups which do not compete with the NI B4.

This is a very cool set up.

I have some learning to do on parameters for optimal setup with B4, Motu, Korg midi communications.

But it all looks very good.

Ed

 

Best upper manual controller, IMHO is the Axiom 61. A decent second is the CME, but the sliders are not very playable. The Axiom can be set up to control just about any parameters you choose and the drum pads make great patch changers. Use another for lower manual if you don't mind having to separate the manuals, but I use an M-Audio Prokeys sx88, it's the exact same board only larger.

My only real complaints with this board are the keys are not true waterfall, there is a bit of a lip (though you could grind it off if it bothers you) and the keys are a bit deeper than an organ manual, so you have to push a bit further down.

 

One controller I have not seen addressed in these posts is the Novation remote 61 SL keyboard. My impression from reading (never played it) is that it has a superior feel compared to the others (m-audio, edirol, evolution, etc.) plus the LCD displaying the functions of soft keys seems like a great idea. The obvious drawbacks: price ($600) and 8 sliders instead of 9. I just sold my B4D because I found I was not using the bars as often as I thought I would; I'm more of a pre-set guy (i.e. not a true B3 player!). Therefore, under my hands, a missing bar could be replaced with a knob. Any thoughts out there?

 

Feel is of GREAT importance, it is the one area I find the M-Audio keyboards lacking. But AS a B3 player, I absolutely MUST have the 9 drawbar/sliders (I frequently grab a handful of drawbars for change of tone color.) But equally important, I need any qualifying keyboard to have: sustain input AND volume input cc inputs; fast preset change (I use the Axiom drum [ads as program change, it's instant) and the ability to change percussion and vibrato on/off on the fly. The ONLY two boards that passed this test (at the time I bought last March) were the Axiom and the CME, which had breath control, but the sliders suck.) If you don't need drawbar instant access, and work mostly from presets, it's still nice to be able to change the promary voicing controls, but if it works for you, that is ALL that matters...

 

FWIW, Novation X-station has the same keyboard as the Remote SL, but includes 9 sliders among its many controls. I also am looking at upgrading my midi keyboard, and current candidates include the Axiom as well as the 2 Novation boards (Remote SL and X-station). Here are is an interesting link http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=869869. Plus http://www.sonicstate.com/ has video reviews of both the Novation Remote SL and the Axiom (25 key versions).

Dan

 

FYIW,
I'm using an xstation 61.
At gigs with laptop, it controls the whole show. B4ii is the min soft instrument that I play. Wack on the B4 templated and you access to all the main controls.
The other neat thing with the xstation is it gives you a reasonable VA synth as well, plus a handy USB audio interface. But, I dont use the audio side at gigs.

LjG

 

Hi, If you are thinking of XK1 or XK3, why would NOT use the sound engine?
These keyboards are not designed to replicate the hammond sound, they are the hammond sound.

 

While I completely agree it would be silly to ignore the XK3, I have spent time with all the above and have to say that it is NOT the Hammond sound - closer than the rest, yes, but the palm slaps and pedal kicks are still wrong. and that, for me, is an important part of the Hammond groove.

There can be only one...

 

wow! this thread came in handy.... I am also planning to get a keyboard controller (tired of using my notebook mouse to move the knobs!) and was wondering whether the m-audio Oxygen 61 will do the job.

Check it out and see if it is a good idea.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Oxygen61-main.html

FastFingerSue

 

Sue, get the Axiom 61. Trust me on this as a professional B3 player plus clones (I own two A100s,, the Voce V3 with drawbars, Hammond XM1 and XM1c controller, B4 plus B4ii and have played B3 since 1965), it is FAR and away a superior controller. A major plus is the drum pads, which I set up as instant, one-touch patch/preset change for eight presets. It can be programmed to control any aspect of the B4 or B4ii and the keyboard and is very close to a 'waterfall' keyboard, important for doing palm glisses and slaps. It's inexpensive enoough to get two for dual-manual operation, or run a simple no-frills controller - I use the Prokeys sx88. Plus the drawbars are quite playable, and there are nine of them...

I have a B4ii template for the Axiom 61 I'd be happy to share when I get the lower manual controls wotking the way I want, but I have been waiting for that keyboard since the first B4 version...