Best controller keyboard for B4 / B4 II?

...I'm sorry, what was the question...I was too busy drooling over your list of dream gear....sign me up! LOL...that or the new b3p.

 

I own this keyboard and its pretty freaking sweet. Feels good to me, but the velocity sensitivity sucks. I thought I could use it for a piano sound too, but it fails horribly. But for B3 stuff its great. All its drawbar midi settings are mapped for the B4, so its plug and play!

 

I use a childs toy midi keyboard (Reveal musicstar) the keys are very very small and it has no velocity or aftertouch, but the keys on this nasty little keyboard are perfect for glissandos, I use it on the same midi channel as one of my proper keyboards.

 

Just got the B4II

:lol: :lol: :lol:
...well, so much for getting anything else!
I'm stuck between the Axiom, and Evo m'self....
I just got B4II for the first time, and I'm blown away how cool and how many options there are! ... now for the RIGHT controller!

 

A small summary for drawbar freaks..

I would recommend possibility of real-time drawbar control, which means at least 9 sliders/faders should be available, and availablility of buttons and/or pads for preset selection. If you do not need that kind of control you have a vast choice of controllers.
1) I have observed that the Evolution series seem to have disappeared from the market lately in favour of M-audio's own series. Also the Evolution 461 lacks expression pedal input. Need for 9 sliders and preset buttons seem to rule out all of M-audios controllers(Radium,Oxygen) but the Axiom.
2) CME with motorized fader's great, but the faders so far apart that you cant "grab drawbars".
3) Edirol and most(?) other low-end controllers (Behringer etc) has only 8 sliders and/or no rpeset selection buttons.
4) Doepfer (nevre tried it) seem to have good drawbars but rest of layout does not look to controllable.
5) Hammond Xc3 (and the cheaper Xk1 ) has organ layout (drawbars,waterfall keys..) and are hence better than most, but maybe an expensive overkill. Other "clonewheels" may also be used, but you MAY run into MIDI mapping problems.
6) Another option is to have an external controller for drawbars. A good option of you already have a keyboard. But an extra controller plus a keyboard controller could be as expensive as a used clonewheel, and means moroe complexity(and cables).

Personally I would recommend M-Audio Axiom-61 for low-end solution and a new or used clonewheel (Korg CX-3,Roland VK-series, Hammond X-series) for a not-so-low-end. It should be possible to get a used clonewheel for at half the price of a new Xk1.

--gordon

 

I like the layout, its really easy to access the necessary stuff on the B4, and its plug and play into the software. There are two pedals inputs, so you can use foot controllers for rotor speed, and power. Switching between presets is near your right hand. I play without a bass player mostly, so I can change my preset while keeping the bass line going. Works for me.

It requires a few hours of assembly, the screws don't quite line up when putting it together. You have to loosely put it together, loosen a few case screws, then tighten it all. Analog Heaven (US distributor) is very nice and easy to talk to, as well as Doepfer who actually responds to e-mails.

 

Hi

This thread is just what I've been looking for!

I've been looking to replace my 14 month old Xboard 49 (please don't laugh) with a 61 key MIDI controller [Xboard61??] (currently I find myself permanently Octave shifting to get the "high C"). The other thing I found is that whilst it has loads of knobs to twiddle I think I really need sliders to get the most out of the B4. So far my list looks like the following (in order of cost high>low) all of which have the 9 sliders:

1. CME VX 6
Has motorised sliders which will move when presets are changed, includes an interface and midi "pad" song playability.
However, only the older UF series seem readily available. Is this vapourware kit?

2. Studiologic VMK-161 plus Organ.
Unlike the other VMK series that have weighted keys, the "plus Organ" version doesn't have piano style keys but true waterfall organ keys.... This may be the ultimate dumb MIDI controller for B4.2 but has anyone actually used it. The manual also shows that it may be a bit of a fiddle to program.

3. Novation X-station 61
This has an audio interface, and comes with NI B4 template and includes a B4 card to sit over its sliders/knobs - they also throw in a Novation synthesiser for good measure! The manual looks a breeze. But what's the keyboard action like?

4. Edirol PCR-800
I think this has been recently released but looks cool?

5. CME UF 60
Updated version of the UF6, the sliders appear shifted to the left, has "WIDI" but see comments on VX 6 regarding availability, but appears an improvment on UF series.


6. M-audio Axiom61
Appears a straight forward clean unit, recommended in this thread.

7. CME UF6
About the only CME range that appears readily available, sliders seem kinda big and plasticy....

The CME VX series looks so expensive its almost enough to consider a full blown workstation/synth. The StudioLogic may be a one trick poney, but who cares if it fully gives that Hammond experience? The X-station looks interesting, but is it "too good to be true". That then leaves the PCR-800/Axiom 61/UF60. Guess I could always go with a Xboard61/Evolution UC33 ? Ah decsisions, decisions.

I'd be grateful if others could comment on any of the boards above, good or bad? All the review I can find seem to be glowing with praise about each of the boards....

Cheers!

 

I dont like to repeat myself but ...

 

Still can't make up my mind. None of the local music shops have any of my shortlist in stock.... but a bit of searching has found one UK shop about 100 miles away that has at least 4 of the beasts in stock. So its an early rise tomorrow and see how I get on!

 

OK, just got back!

I visited the shop of http://www.absolute247.co.uk/shop/. The folks there were extremly helpful. I'd trimmed my wish list down a bit and and they were happy to get out the Edirol PCR-800, M-Audio Axiom 61 and Studiologic VMK-161 (organ) units for me to have a look at. Just as well!

I didn't like the action and feel of the keys on the Edirol PCR-800 and it didn't quite match my expectations.

The Axiom61 felt much better in comparison. The online blurb and photos of the Axiom really don't do it justice. I also agree with the positive comments elsewhere in this thread. What was really notable was that the Axiom keys have just a very small lip and are virtually flat fronted rather than the typical synthesiser keys (Edirol), I also liked the size and feel of the black keys.

Then there was the studiologic.... this is a big heavy beast! I really liked the action on the keys (not sure about the slightly "yellow" white keys ("vintage ivory" I guess), but was it big'n heavy! The Studiologic was just too big and heavy for my personal needs and the somewhat limited space for both use and storage I have for it.

So in the end I went with the Axiom61.

I must also pass on my praise for the folks in the shop, who were keen that I got a unit that suited my needs and didn't push the more expensive ones...

 

After using several controllers, I am very pleased with the Axiom 61 keyboard. The button, sliders and dials are great. Again the biggest strength of this keyboard is the "piano like feel & shape" of the keyboard, since I use organ, piano and electric piano simulation for my gigs. Of course I prefer the hammer action of my Keystation Pro for piano gigs, but this light, portable unit is very nice for gigs where I don't want to pack the heavier Keystation. Very nice for the B-4 and electric piano!

 

Is there any chance of getting a copy of this template? paul(at)paulmellors(dot)com

Many Thanks

Paul

 

Would really appreciate if u could share these templates.

I'm trying out different keyboards at the moment, and will certainly
look into the Axiom now.
At present I'm testing the Novation SL in order to get an allround
keyboard for the B4 II and The EastWest Orchestras, but I'm not getting
familiar with the keys. Too light for me.
Beeing more of a Piano-player, I use the Yamaha P-120, and its a 'long walk' from there to the Novation...

Cheers

G

BTW...
My E-mail's in my 'profile'.

 

This is the same situation for me. My main keyboard is a Kawai MP9500 which is about the best piano action I have come across but it's not ideal for organ/synth etc. My Axiom is arriving on Monday, I'll post comments.

Paul

 

Thanx Paul.

BTW...
I came across the 'Fatar VMK-161 Plus Organ Midi Keyboard'
last night, and was wondering if that is an alternative ?
Did anyone try this, or maybe you got some thoughs on it ?

And will it work OK for Orchestral instruments as well ?


Cheers
G

 

I've tried the M-Audio Axiom today, and decided to let it go.
I will check out the Fatar later this week, and then take it from there.

The Axiom is very nice, but still too much 'synth minded' for me.

Cheers
G

 

I've had the Axiom for a couple of days now, not much time to use it but have managed to configure a much better setup patch for B4 which also gives me Pro Tools transport control.
My 1st thought was that it did feel cheap (well it is, very) But having played it for a while I do think it is quite a good option as an organ controller, plus being very flexible. I'm not going to attempt to compare it to my Kawai MP9500 for build quality etc, it's a totally different beast and does a different job.
I seriously looked at buying a XK3 but never went ahead, I ended up using B4 via NI's classic keys bundle and ideally wanted a B4D, but failing that the Axiom seemed worth a punt at the price. An XK3 it isn't but it is a very playable organ with good control (preset control is poor but custom set up easy) it is. Bearing in mind the difference in cost between an XK3 and an Axiom/B4, I don't feel I could justify the difference. If I was playing Hammond day in/day out then it would be different, but for use in my studio, I'm happy and the spare cash will just about buy a used Control 24!
I did consider the Fatar, but previous experience of this brand has put me off somewhat. I have owned a couple of Kurzweil's (containing Fatar actions) and found them quite poor. I loved the sound of my K2600XS but the action was not in the same league as the Kawai or a top Yamaha etc.

Paul

 

Hi !
I myself look for a good controller too and today I was in a german shop who had ´em nearly all and some others side by side. The result, ´cause I´m playing keyboards since over 20 years is, - non of the new controllers, regardless of their possibilities in midi asssignment of sliders and/or knobs, satisfied me depending on their pure keyboards quality. The keyboards of my old Yamaha and Rhodes/Roland hardware instruments are ways better and this after playing these since the 80th. All these controller-keyboards feel like toys to me, all the sliders and knobs feel more or less cheap. It seems to be a question of price range buying a good quality keyboard controller and this isn´t the pricerange where one can expect real good quality an reliability.

I think,for the B4 / B4II, the Doepfer is the right choice w/ the addition of the optional drawbar controller and presets call up section.

For software synths in the studio and w/PPH Reason p.ex., a dedicated specialized synth orientated controller is necessary in addition. Unfortunally, the new Korg Kontrol 49 and Akai MPK49 were not in stock, - so I wait for these to check ´em out.

The CME VX series might be interesting, but wasn´t available too. I played the older models and wasn´t satisfied w/ the feel of the semi-weighted keys.

KB

 

Absolutely! So much gear now is built to be as cheap as possible and therefore uality of keyboards etc really suffer.
My day to day keyboard is my Kawai MP9500 and that has a great action with wooden keys. I am spoilt because I have a Steinway Model O and therefore have struggled to find as good an action as I can fing in an electric piano and the Kawai is tops for me.
As I previously mentioned the Axiom is OK and great value for money but it is a "cheap" keyboards and feels it too.
I would be really interested to try the Doepfer but trying to find a store with one in the Uk is very very unlikely. I had to get the Axiom mail order:-(

PAUL

 

I purchased an Axiom 61 recently, partly as a result of looking through this thread. I must admit, I am more of a guitarist than a KB player, but I love B3s, and wanted a good alround controller KB that would give me good control over the B4II.

I am very happy with my Axiom. It comes with a default preset for the B4II too, which was an unexpected bonus
! I find the keys very playable compaired to other KBs I have had in the past, but the real boon, are all the controls, such as the 9 faders which work well as drawbars.

Like I said before, I am a guitarist, but unless you have piles of money to burn on a dedicated B3 controller, or even a real B3, I think the Axiom will not disapoint you. There are plenty of other features too that make it very useful for the B4II, as well as for studio use in general.