Best of both worlds possible?

As I browse through the forum, I see there seems to be two schools of use pretty much.

The Standalones and The Integrators

I think both have valid requests and concerns and I'm just wondering do you think it's possible to for maschine to be the best in both areas of use?

The Standaloners: prefer to use maschine by itself, tend to speak about vst integration, plugin integration, better song workflows, etc.. they want maschine to stand on it's own two feet, based on the power they already see and the workflow it provides, for these folks, maschine has the potential and may already be the production platform of choice. They want more sound expansions, more sound import abilities, etc... they want to see maschine grow into a full workstation, which to some degree it already is.

The Integrators: maschine is a very powerful part of a WHOLE. Maschine fits into their setup, they want better plugin support, better automation from their host of maschine, better pattern sequencing from within the host, more outputs, better midi/sound module like support. They like maschine as a tool that fits in the bigger picture and want it to play nicer with their host of choice, they don't want to see vst support or NI plugin support anywhere near maschine. Would rather get the integration as a plugin working better and use the vsts in their host of choice.


I sympathize with both but I think most know I lean more towards the Standaloners crowd lol.

But I don't think any one use is better, I think it's all about how it fits into peoples current workflow.

My question is, do you think we can have a killer Maschine that holds it's own in both of these categories of use?

Can we have it fully please both parties? Will there have to be some type of compromise in one side to fully reach the potential of the other?

What do you think? Am I crazy?

For the record, Maschine with vsts or NI plugs is like fried chicken and hot sauce to me... sure they are great alone, but together it makes the world a better place

 

once i watched the video of kore and what it does then i read about the updates to come, i had great ideas for maschine.

i mean in my previous thread i talked about kontakt patch's but in general, if any of the ni engines (kontakt, fm8, absynth....etc) where implemented into the maschine software it would give us so many possibilities and give alot more people incentive to go out and buy komplete to be able to use the engines in maschine.

the engines have already been intigrated into kore so i see it as being posiblility if we as maschine users make some noise about it who knows what happens next.

ni could have several differnt roads for this kind of update.

1) owners of komplete or stand alone bundles of software would open the ability to use these engines in maschine.

2)possibly give users a free incentive of one of the cheaper ni synths in a update, and to unlock others , maschine users need to buy the synths wanted or komplete.

there are many options but i am very keen on expanding what maschine can do , as for the standaloners it would be great to give us access to 10000+ more sounds and instruments by uintegrating engines of other ni apps.

i for one know maschines number 1 drum machine in town but the possibilities are endless.

 

I used to be a standaloner, but now i lean more towards the integrators ,
basically because Maschine has not enough really unique synths for me and i'm too lazy to import them when i easily can have them in the daw.

Man, but as a new Reaktor owner i would love to see this...

NI, can you hear me?

reaktor running inside maschine...
REAKTOR RUNNING INSIDE MASCHINE....
*** REAKTOR RUNNING INSIDE MASCHINE! ***

this would be so awesome!

 

Hahahaha I feel ya fellas, I don't think any one side is right or wrong. I think many reluctantly become integrators just because they want to use the other plugs.... I think many, if given the option, would rather just work in Maschine for full productions if possible.

Nothing matches my workflow in maschine, not even ableton live which I love...and even with the lack of instruments, synths, etc... I still find myself using Maschine more than anything else.

I think NI can be the best in both aspects, I'm just goin along for the ride!

 

Am more gearing towards standalone. With my current setup, I have two pro-level Asio cards in my system (talk about overkill) and since I copped Maschine, this has worked great to my advantage. Am able to run Reason, V-Stack or even any Standalone VSTi, use Maschine to activate it via Midi Out and sample the wav back into Maschine and keep it moving. It's working out so far.

 

I'm in the integrator camp, I guess. I would definitely not want to see Maschine evolve into a "DAW". Maschine can't replace a DAW, nor should it try to. Yes, it needs more feautures, some really important ones already announced in the so called "upcoming features" thread. But adding too many "DAW like feautures" bear the risk of turning it into a bloated piece of software and lose part of it's attractiveness: a lean and mean hardware/software combination which enables you to quickly turn ideas into reality with a workflow unmatched by any other piece of equipment.

By trying to make it a true standalone product NI would need to keep adding features that the major DAWs already have and can do sooo much better. To be fair, like saintjoe already pointed out, your workflow will probably determine which camp you're in.

 

I'm actually in the process of purchasing a Maschine but I am leaning towards a standalone. It doesn't have to be a DAW but it would be nice if it was a full featured workstation. I don't care about recording vocals (that is what Reaper is for ) but having the ability to use VSTs inside of the program would be awesome. And if we are given song mode, I can make the complete song in Maschine and just bounce to the DAW of your choice. I understand this is the concept of using it as a plugin but if NI gives the option to drag and drop the whole song (every track) in the daw, it is as simple as it gets.

 

A definite standaloner here.

I'm looking forward to Maschine being the only program you have to open to produce a whole beat, from start to finish. (I wouldn't even mind if you could record vocals in it, but that is not on my top 10 list of feature requests at the moment.)

It would be a dream come true if you could use vst's inside Maschine in standalone mode, without having to launch Pro Tools/Logic/any Daw.

And I seriously think that which ever Maschine/Bpm/Guru/Mpc-like program does this first, will be the winner, and become the go-to production program for all the producers who will eventually go from hardware to software.

 

I'm sitting in both camps. I use Live as my host and want to continue to do this for evertyhing i'm not running through maschine. I love Maschine for the workflow and building beats, am happy with effects and automating inside the unit as a standalone to build complete patterns within the unit. I'm not even fussed about full integration into the host, I just want to be able to sequence pattern launches from the host without having to build scenes. For me this fits my overall workflow perfectly.

 

that sounds like a great workflow man! lol, having two asio cards would definitely make things a lot easier
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I hear ya bro! I think that's the misconception, many who want it to be standalone don't want a full daw, just a full production environment. I know I don't really care about recording vocals and all that stuff in Maschine, but some sort of open way to expand the sounds either with NI's exclusive plugins or vst support would put it over the top.

I have ableton when I want a daw, if I want to do vocals, all that... but even many hardware production stations see the need for some sort of audio track support. They don't want to be a full daw, but the know people would like the capability to do more in one location...

exporting the wav tracks and mixing in your DAW of choice would be ill. Or even if it was a better integration to where you could load it up as a plug and then just track each sound out into your DAW easily...

I just think relying on another program to hold your instruments kills the flow a lil bit.
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exactly, I'm not looking to replace a DAW in the traditional sense... as far as recording and editing songs and such. That's what protools, logic, reaper, etc are for.

Even with Ableton, I use it more as a production center than a DAW. When it comes to recording vocals I like other programs, simple, to the point, drop in my vocals, done.

I'm somewhat still partial to standalone digital workstations for this.
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you hit it on the head man, for production, not a full digital audio workstion, just a full digital production center. When dealing with software and produciton, expansion, vsts, etc are pretty much a standard.

Maschine is way beyond any other "groove station" that is out, in my opinion, some way to merge your NI sounds and plugins would take it to that next level.

It wouldn't add too much complexity and stability issues because those that don't wish to use it don't have to.

But I agree with your last sentence, whoever merges these concepts first, in a way that NI is already going, will be the winner.

I honestly think NI will be that company at some point, I don't see anyone else being as innovative.

BPM could have done it, but they didn't come with a hardware controller integrated, so it makes that less desirable.

 

really good thread! well, i'm more a standalone integrator at this time. i wish also that NI will do it right and follow their concept. or maybe work it out in that direction

i don't need a lot of included sounds but as already mentioned a possibility to use vsti's inside maschine. was also thinking about getting rid of most of the librarysounds. just to have a better overview over my own tagged sounds. and saying vst-support won't come because of Kore its not the right way i don't have Kore and would never buy it just for using vsti in "maschinah"

 

fyi, Kore comes with a huge Library of Sounds, so it is much more than just a VSTi host

btw, i wouldn't get rid of your Library Sounds.

sowari

 

Though I do use Maschine standalone at times, I'd have to say I'm more interested in integration, otherwise I could have just stuck with my MPC and other bits. Neither side is wrong, but I'd definitely like them to focus on the software more as a plug-in, as for me, Maschine is mostly a component (though a big one) not the center of my kit. I'd prefer to see Maschine work better along side my other tools, not have those tools working inside Maschine. I'm often jumping from Logic, to Nuendo, to DP, to Pro Tools depending on what I'm doing...and non of those task are ideal for Maschine. Maschine however is a very integral part for the purposes I use it for though -- in more cases than not it's used in a bigger application alongside other plug-ins and video.

 

I hear ya man, I see both sides of it. I too don't think plugin support in Maschine will do anything to the Kore market, I keep saying it, but it's two different markets and two different reasons for purchase.
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KORE is definitely more than a vsti host, it's an instrument on it's own. I agree.

I wouldn't get rid of the library sounds either but it may be better for him if all he ever uses are his own sounds
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better integration is a needed direction for you it seems, nothing wrong with that! I love it man, I really think it can excel in both areas and be the dream "machine" for both sides of the spectrum

 

That's the reason I sold my MPC, but I think plugin intergration within maschine (standalone) would increase your workflow because after you're finished making your song in standalone mode you just save the sequence and then open maschine up in your daw. I think the thing for me is that I love that fact that maschine feels like you're using hardware but as soon as you open up your Daw then it feels like software.

 

Yup yup. Or even just a synth module made exclusive for Maschine. Or Reaktor ensembles in Maschine...etc. The cool thing is that these are not just some remote pipe dreams. NI definitely has the ability to do it. I just hope that they're not holding back because they want us to buy Kore as well.

 

I currently host Maschine within KORE and I have a slightly different viewpoint to add.

The way I see it, as soon as you make Maschine a plugin host it will no longer be an 'in the box' product. This is because you will need to focus on your computer again in order to make changes to the plugins. This is perfectly fine of course.

Now KORE is another piece of well written software built specifically to host plugins and take care of complex audio routing. The routing possibilities are really the most advantageous aspect of hosting Maschine within KORE. If you're not afraid of getting your hands dirty re patching some virtual cables then you will be able to achive far better results than you could by simply hosting plugins within Maschine. This give you the ability to route midi to nested sounds and feed audio from Macshine to Group Channels.

It would seem to me that NI are aiming a modular production system using their suite of products. I am happy with this approach as it allows for some very 'out of the box' thinking.

With this in mind, I would like to see tighter integration between Maschine & KORE. Perhaps if we were able to do things like access the KORE browser from the Maschine hardware to browse sounds. This could automatically generate default routings in KORE. I for one would like the ability to change banks in Maschine from KORE. That way I can use Maschine like a rolling sequencer for live performance that can receive pattern and sound changes though program changes sent to KORE.

The way I see it, both products excel at what they are meant to. Tighter integration between the two could see the advent of a remarkable sequencing environment.

 

not really, maschines browser could handle say for instance knob 1 flicking from sound. fx , sampe they could easily add fm8/abynth/kontackt/what ever you liek to this list and utilize the other knobs for a desired sound, theres 4 knobs in total to break up the libraries.

then being able to tweak the sounds they can add differnt pages pressing left and right on the desired soudn to tweak the availible settings.

and this can be kept all @in the box@

 

Good points. I'm not dismissing Kore at all and I find it very impressive. If NI implemented the type of integration between Maschine and Kore like you describe, I would stop demanding plugin support and immediately buy Kore.

 

Agreed, but I think this would be better served accessing the KORE browser. I realize that many people may not wish to buy KORE, but why reinvent the wheel? I for one would rather see further advancements to the Maschine product so that it excels at what it was designed to do. Likewise with KORE.

It would not be an easy task too add the functionality that you speak of to a platform which currently does not support it. This would be a major undertaking. As a customer that has paid for both products, I would be disappointed to see development time spent replicating functionality from a parallel product line.

It's also worth remembering that this product is a direct competitor to the Akai MPC. If you were to pay for Maschine & KORE it would still be less expensive than an MPC5000 and I would expect that it would be significantly more capable.