Blocks GUI Question (Lamp's colors gone missing)

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by Catman Dude, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

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    338
    Block programmers,
    I've been working on another block-tweak and would be ready to post it to the U/L but for one puzzling quirk that as yet I haven't been able to figure out.
    My block (slight, trivial, upgrade of Mitch Burton's Clock Deluxe, which was a real improvement over the factory Clock block) has a Lamp for whenever it receives a Gate. I applied colors from a Color Picker for both the On state and the Off state, to match other colors I used in the block's face.
    Everything is fine until I hit the Reaktor power button (On/Off). My colors for both states disappear. Literally a black hole where gates used to be! (No more Gates appear in alternation of yellow with red.)
    What am I missing? I am happy to post the block here if the answer isn't immediately apparent to someone.
    Thanks in advance!

    Edit: I should have checked before, but Mitch Burton's block does the same thing, so of course mine does too. Is this a Reaktor bug? What is a user typically supposed to do when this happens to her/him? I suppose the 2 color settings are in the Properties and they could probably reinstate them the way I have to whenever this happens, but is this really the way anything should work?

    Catman
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  2. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,043
    upload_2019-1-30_23-24-3.png
    I change color setting off to brown and start the clock.
    Now it's flashing between blue and brown.
     
  3. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,043
    Do you start the midi clock?
     
  4. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

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    338
    Mine too is flashing -- until I hit the Reaktor Power button. On/Off.
    Try that and see if you still get the flashing?
     
  5. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

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    338
    Yes, it doesn't flash at all unless the External clock is ticking.
    I was using it with an ensemble that had an oscillator that kept oscillating after stopping the clock. Everything was looking fine at that point, but I wanted the sound to stop so I hit the Power button. That's when the lamp more or reset to black, no colors, no flashing when the MIDI clock got restarted.
     
  6. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    can i smell some core init trouble here? :)

    primary order2 could be your friend with this sort of trouble to force late inits. (pushing the event into after init phase)
     
  7. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

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    338
    Maybe that would fix it, but can you be more specific as to where this belongs?
    I'm attaching the structure of the Panel, with the Lamp highlighted.
    Thanks!
    Thala,
    Your idea may well be good. I noticed that turning the power button off didn't affect the Lamp colors. Turning it back ON did!
    Should I upload the block?
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    i hate to do this myself, but please use the ACEW.
    https://www.native-instruments.com/de/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/10125/
    this thing will teach us more about core than anything else.
    init vs re-init and such stuff.
    most likely your prob is laying at the output of a core cell or in front of the input (regarding primary events).
    in the pic it looks like the lamp is feeded by audio?
    i guess its feeded by a event output of a core cell. maybe even from the main core of your block.
    go into that cell and activate "allow audio events" on that outout port feeding the lamp.
    - does it work?
     
  9. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

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    338
    Thala,
    As Robert Schumann said when he first heard Chopin play:
    Hats off gentlemen, a genius!
    That is so cool that you could analyze it down like that.
    I'm attaching an image of the core cell's lamp output port, which I can see has added Audio to Events.
    The Signal Type, as you correctly inferred, is Event.
    But now please explain the timing of what is going on?
    Did an init event go from the lamp's output into the lamp but the power button coming back on turned it off, and later some audio signal comes along afterwards and reinstantiates the lamp's colors? Probably wrong.
    Edit: so if you have Mitch Burton's Clock Deluxe block and you want to fix this Power button issue, read Thala's suggestions and turn on 'Allow Audio Events'.

    Danke tausendmal!
    Catman
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  10. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    we are not done...
    thats the dirty way. this option just takes too much performance.
    have to sleep now. tomorrow...
     
  11. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    338
    Well, I may have spoken too soon. Conferred 'genius' too early.
    The 'Allow Audio Events' idea worked on one test, and then ???? went back to bombing out the lamp's colors.
    It could be just user error as it seems I'm really getting good at that. ;)
    So you may think the solution I found is also too costly in performance:
    I grabbed the Colour module from the Note In factory block, and repurposed it for my Poly Clocks + block Gate lamp.
    It has 2 advantages over the Clock Deluxe lamp method:
    1) the big one, the Power button does not kill the colors when you turn it off and then back on;
    2) it allows the user to choose a base color, which I augmented with another color at an offset of 4 from the base color.
    Gate Off and Gate On. In my choosing, Red and Yellow. Punkt.
    I'll check back in tomorrow for your opinion on this petty pilferage I committed.
    Meanwhile, the disappearance of the lamp colors... ist eine Schweinerei, stimmt es nicht?
     
  12. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    sorry hab mich gestern wieder voll in car+ verloren...
    habe also immer noch nicht den block angeschaut.
    ich war davon ausgegangen, dass die jetzige wahl der gate lampe kombiniert mit einer mouse area als switch das problem war... dort begegnet man schnell init probleme.
    man erkennt die schaltung an einem loop, der durch den main core geht.
    im original fall kann es sein, dass nur die lampe an das (audio)gate gekoppelt ist?
    dann ist es kein init trouble sondern einfach nur das audio vs echte primary events problem.
    nun will ich das selber wissen und werde heut abend mal den block oeffnen bevor ich car+ oeffne...
    hab gestern noch einiges geaendert. bin ins zdf rabbithole gefallen :)
    bis peter
     
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  13. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    david, i have opened it and can`t reproduce your issue.
    power on, power off. everything keeps working for me fine!
    so i have opened the core and found this he is using to latch the lamp:
    upload_2019-2-1_14-5-11.png

    so first of all i have deleted everything beside a display latch:
    upload_2019-2-1_14-6-18.png

    still working... maybe you just dont see very quick clocks.

    to create the first screenshot i reverted the changes by multiple undo to get it back into original state.
    now it SEEMs i have that bug too. but i was using a crazy high clock speed. the lamp does now stick to a middle state between on and off. or maybe our eyes are just to slow and recognize it as a mixed colour, while in reality it is switching very fast.
    pulling down the clock speed into a normal useful range brought back the lamp switching between two colours.
    please send your broken save. something seem really broken as it looks like atm.
    the "allow audio event" was not touched by me.
    mitch is latching with display clock. this should be enough to push audio events through a core event output (breaking that audio event barrier).

    somewhat weird.
     
  14. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    338
    Ich verstehe nur zu gut die Gefahren des rabbitholes!
     
  15. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    338
    Danke, Thala!
    Sehr interessant! Du siehst, wie Paule auch, kein Problem. Es macht mich ganz verwirrt!

    For debugging purposes I loaded both versions of my Poly Clocks + block into the test ensemble (and will upload them to this post).
    I looked at the CalcLamp macro you show above, and even after losing the lamp colors by power off and on, all the gates were coming through that macro just fine. No latching issues either. The same numbers were reaching back into the panel as well (the Lamp's input was showing the same numbers changing more or less smoothly), but no lamp colors were visible to my eyes. So yes I suppose it could be something to do with too rapid cycling, but what's strange is: where the lamp was is now black. Schwarz, und Nichts flackert sogar.

    Of course if I go into the Lamp's Properties and reset the colors and restart the clock, my colors come back.

    So I upload my block-in-progress in 2 flavors for your perusal. The one called "MetalRed" is the problematic version. The one called "Color" is the one I hacked with the Colour module from Note In. Now, if you have no problem with "MetalRed" I suppose it comes down to a difference in computers?
    Let me know what you find?! Vielen Dank!
    David
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    i can power on/off that red metal without any trouble.

    But if i touch the colour picker to change colour... the off colour gets lost making the lamp sticking to the on colour. and sometimes the other way around.
    the video shows it pretty clear.
    drop that lamp and pick something different like a multipic switching between 2 pics or whatever.

    reproduced it 3 times now.
    win7 64bit
    internal init trouble ? :p
    looks like something isn`t refreshing on changing colour.
     

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  17. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    574
    that switching "allow audio event" on/off maybe just forced a full reload, since it needs to compile that change.
    i guess every other change in core would have fixed this too.
     
  18. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    338
    Here's something interesting: when everything worked fine yesterday, I was just in Reaktor.app. My problems it turns out come from being in Logic Pro X and running Reaktor as a plugin! What might that mean?
    I tested again today and confirmed that both Mitch's block and mine (pre-Colour) work fine in Reaktor alone.
    But the rub for me of course is I work in Logic more or less all the time!
    David
     
  19. Catman Dude

    Catman Dude NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    338
    Well, wow, that's a different look at the same Schweinestall!
    See my recent post about Logic Pro X being where it bombs for me; in Reaktor alone was where you were a genius.
    On the other hand, I didn't try your Color Picker test in Reaktor.
    In any case, this has become a rabbit hole for me and jetzt fuer dich auch. Es tut mir leid. Aber Danke fuer die Hilfe.
    Because of rabbit holes, I am going to run with the version provisionally called Poly Clocks + Color. It does exactly what is needed, as it switches between 2 images, both in the shape of a square, and each a different color.
    (I like your Reaktor member number: 331331!)
     
  20. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,043
    I got 65999 years ago
     
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