Bug Blue meter lights appear to indicate nothing

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by CakeAlexS, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    Bug or schoolboy error? Can anybody validate
    (Windows + Maschine 2.3). Just using the Maschine studio controller.

    STEPS

    1) Plug in an external sound source such as a bass guitar. Sort out a level in the audio interface.
    2) On the Maschine Studio Controller create a brand new project, and select group A sound 1.
    3) Press channel button and select the correct source for the sound I'm using EXT1.
    4) Press IN1 on the controller. Observe the button turns blue.
    5) Play your external sound source and adjust the level on your audio interface until you hear something, observe the blues meter lights are flashing.
    6) Now turn down the gain (either use the main dial next to the fully lit IN1 button, or use dial 2) until you can't hear anything when playing. Confirm the sound source is still correct, and gain is set to -inf.
    7) Play your external sound source again.

    EXPECTED

    You hear nothing. No blue meter lights are flashing.

    ACTUAL

    You hear nothing. The blue meter lights ARE flashing.
    It's like the the meters register no level change.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  2. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    10,600
    Turn down the gain how?
     
  3. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,807
    Isn't it metering signal actually at the input i.e., before the gain?
     
  4. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    I've clarified point 6, thanks for pointing that out.
     
  5. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    That could make sense, but then what would be the point of gain (in point 6) if you don't see any meters for it?
     
  6. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,807
    Is the point of a gain/level to be metered visually? Damn. I thought it was to adjust the level of a signal.
     
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  7. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    Thanks for the sarcasm. Remember here in effect I'm a Maschine noob, so let me agree with you that I'm probably being stupid here.

    OK so no meters on gain, just for the audio interface input... makes sense.
    However in my DAW the gain makes no difference to the audible volume when you are playing and recording, it only kicks in when you play the recording back.... So I'm finding this confusing. I don't understand what's going on here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  8. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,807
    No problem, you're very welcome. To be honest, though, I was starting to feel a little under-appreciated and that you were quite ungrateful with this being the first time you've thanked me for it.

    How have you got the audio routed and how/where are you recording it and playing it back?
    are you monitoring the external input and recording in your DAW? How are your Maschine cue outputs set (sampling mode monitoring is routed there)?
     
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  9. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    Hey I've been saying thankyou and liking you most times, but I apologise if I haven't done it enough. I appreciate your responses you are doing it more than anybody. I'm quite procedural you know, sometimes it mistakenly comes across as arrogance, such is the terrible nature of the text based medium.

    IN:
    Bass Guitar -> Saffire Pro (zero latency monitoring off) -> Maschine ->

    OUT:
    Maschine Cue out -> Saffire Pro (dedicated channel) -> Speakers.

    I think you should be experiencing my steps to repro in #1.
    I think you are right that the the blue monitor lights can only be adjusted from my sound interface. This would function like most DAW's.
    I still don't quite understand what the point of gain is here, you should only be able to hear it when you play back the created sample IMHO. Unless there is workflow I don't understand.
     
  10. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    7,807
    I think my dryness was too dry... My comment about thanks and not being thanked was just for the sarcasm i.e., I've been sarcastic plenty and this is the first time you've thanked me. ;)
    Not so good when you have to explain it. :p

    So no DAW/host for Maschine?
    The gain parameter is an input level, so should be affecting any input, be it direct from the outside world in standalone or from the host as a plugin, and not from the sounds from within Maschine because they're after that in the signal chain. Use the output level(s) to affect the playback volume.
    But it's a parameter I rarely touch, so will have a check later when I can.
     
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  11. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    Maschine standalone only. If it's input rather than output (as it's in the input section I conclude input) then it should have meters IMHO, but then I'm probably totally confused as to what it's purpose is.

    The only useful parameters I see are INPUT gain on the audio interface (with blue meter LEDs) and output volume.
     
  12. 73*

    73* Forum Member

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    355
    It simply sounds to me that the LED meter on the studio is PFL (pre-fader listen), and thus comes before the monitoring gain control.

    To me this makes sense if the gain has no actual influence on the recording/sampling level. However, if the gain controls the sampling level then we should be able to switch how the meter behaves.
     
  13. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    The only control over input is the audio interface (where the blue LEDS light up giving a level).
    PFL is though metered output (not input which is this scenario).
    Regardless I tried it with cue output and no difference in level if I turn cue on or off (or meter behaviour).
    Gain in this scenario for me is still a complete mystery!

    Thanks!
     
  14. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    9,677
    Small technical correction, it's not an audio interface, just the master volume control for the Maschine application.

    Not at the studio but the Master knob should affect what selection you have. It affects master, group or sound output.
    Now if the input is selected, it should be controlling the input gain. If it is, then I would assume the meter would reflect post input gain. If the input meter is showing pre input gain as 73* stated, then it will not reflect the results of the input gain control. I am not sure of the intended design here but I will check later.

    Cue is not related to input. It controls the cue bus. The sample audition and slice audition is routed to the cue bus as well ans any sound you manually rout there yourself in the sound output settings.
     
  15. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    I am talking purely about input here, please check steps #1. Cheers... :).
    Output only got mentioned because others were bringing it up.
    The question is what is the purpose of input gain on Maschine, and why isn't it metered.

    Of course I'm used to setting the level on the audio interface and seeing levels the blue level meter react on Maschine that bit makes sense. And output is just output (separate matter).
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  16. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    Edited previous post multiple times sorry...
     
  17. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    To gain stage an input from your sound card coming into the Maschine application. Like if you have a synth routed to your soundcard that you rout to a Maschine sound. The meter is to see the level coming into Maschine from your audio interface. The question is, should the input meter be pre input gain or post input gain?
     
  18. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,263
    Well to summarise

    Input level is set from audio interface gain knobs, blue LEDS give me a level on Maschine. As I would expect.

    Altering input gain in Maschine (step 6) seems to increase or reduce the volume level coming out of the monitors. Nothing else seems to happen, it makes no difference to the blue meters which are just reacting to the level coming from the audio interface,

    If input gain was to gain stage then I would expect to be able to meter it, or even route it to another bus, at the moment it just appears to behave like another level output.

    Output in Maschine just does it's thing...

    Cheers...
     
  19. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    I agree.
     
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  20. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    So the question is what the heck is it for?
    Big mystery :)
    Cheers