BUYING A PUSH 2

does anyone own a push 2? i have a maschine mk2 & i'm throwing in the towel with this thing. I've tried integrating it with my workflow in ableton but the template that NI provided SUCKS BIG TIME! I hate it. there's no hacks to control the transport functions in ableton without compromising the functions in Maschine (THE ERASE BUTTON IS THE STOP BUTTON. LIKE WHO TF CREATED THIS?). now i have to breakdown & buy a whole new controller.

 

stop screaming or fix you caps lock key please

 

I did own a Push (both 1 and 2), sold the Push, couldn't get to grips with it, even as a long-term Ableton Live user (from the pre-midi days). Clicked with Maschine (mk3) from day 1, i guess i prefer the "groovebox" workflow.

 

Have both, prefer Maschine MK3 but obviously Push is better at controlling Ableton. If that’s what your priority is than P2 maybe what you need.

My priority is expressing myself musically and for that, Maschine MK3 is the best controller I’ve ever owned.

 

Oohh... Replying to your PM made me realize why the ERASE button is still an issue with "Host Transport Control" on more modern MAS controllers (Studio, MK3 and M+). This issue for those unfamiliar with the context:
https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/host-transport-mode-customisable-buttons.177137/

I'm assuming here but since the Mk1 and Mk2 had no physical "STOP" button they made a compromise and used the ERASE button for that, disabling it from doing its original job in Maschine-SW in the process, this was a bad move IMO but at least it does make a tiny bit of sense, however in the newer models where there is a STOP button it makes no sense. I guess the original decision was never revisited when the newer controllers were made? lol.
Slightly offtopic, sorry.

I had one and sold it, it's amazing but also has it's flaws, regardless of that it's a dedicated controller so as far as controlling Ableton goes nothing is better.

PS: Do note that asking this here leads to biased opinions, if we are sill here in the forum even after trying to Push it's because either we use both or Maschine won the battle for some personal reason, I know quite a few users who left the forum and did the opposite: Sold Maschine and moved to Push.

 

I love Ableton Live. I was a Live user long before I got in to Maschine, and because of that, I've always been more comfortable with Live's software. If you are comfortable with Live's workflow in Session View, then you'll love Push 2. Maschine probably has a better hardware/software handshake because Maschine's software was designed to work strictly with the hardware. Ableton, on the the other hand, was a DAW long before Push 1 or 2 was created. So the integration between the hardware/software may not be as complete as Maschine, but because Live has been around longer, I feel as though Live's software itself, is years and years ahead of Maschine.

So basically, both have their weaknesses and their strengths. The decision is ultimately up to you. I love Maschine, but at this point, because of my familiarity with Live, and the features that Maschine lacks, if I had to choose only one, I would choose Push 2.

 

i've been rocking with NI since the KORE days. i didn't know that this ERASE BUTTON has been a 10 year ordeal with NI. i would have expected more from them in fixing something this small. but instead they focused their attention on making hardware & getting money. i'm done with them.
i appreciate the input from the comments. ya'll have at it. if it doesn't FLOW then it's WORK. good luck on your future endeavors. *deuces

 

Hi forum members,

On thought about complaints you will find in literally every forum, e.g. here or in Ableton's forum:

I've never heard that really, really successful producers or musicians (who can easily live by selling their music only) complain about HW & SW equipment. Neither in a forum nor on a blog or on YT.
.
Why? Is that sort of complaining a hobbyist thing only? Do professionals just use what works irrespective of the manufacturer beeing Akai, NI, Korg, Elektron, Roland etc.?

What's your opinion?

 

I suspect that they have enough motivation, musical skills and drive to learn a software or a hardware instead of just complaining what’s lacking. They might have their own issues with stuff but I guess they learn a way around it or just accept that the sw or hw doesn’t do what they think is right according to their own opinion but work with the tools at hand and master them.

 

the really talented producers i know/knew, could make amazing music with basically ANYTHING.... they have the ideas, the creativity, and the perseverance. It made me realize I was simply tinkering with electronic gear, not trying to make songs/music, this happened more by accident or with a whole lot of stress....

 

Successful/experienced beat makers, musicians, can use anything under the sun, and make great music.

You won’t see us on forums complaining about gear or it’s limitations. Most likely people that are like this, are just looking for sympathizers or some kind validation to move on. It’s understandable, but MY GOD stop with the complaining! All that time wasted could of been used to master something new. We don’t need to hear about it just DO IT.

 

The idea that if you suggest changes for things to improve then you're crying/complaining and not making music is so silly, user feedback is a very valuable asset for any company. There are a few people here in the forum directly responsible for pointing out problems that were fixed in Maschine, or new features that everyone gets to enjoy.... keep that in mind. If no one ever complained things would be much worst, trust me on this one.

Obviously getting angry and ranting in the heat of frustration over XYZ problem is not the best way to get one's point across; it's like yelling at someone when they dont want to listen, sort of a natural human reaction... It doesn't tend to lead to results tho, there are other ways.

Hi. I'm a bit baffled by these statements...
What makes you think everyone here is a hobbyist? Most users barely have any info about them on their profiles.
Music pays my bills for many years so if that's the definition of 'Pro' then I guess I am one of those; there are others here too, and many others in other sub-forum that run successful studios, sound designers that work for big companies, etc... What is a "really, really successful producer" ? A millionaire and super world-famous person? I dont fit that category but if I did I wouldn't reveal my identity in any forum for obvious reasons...

I've seen a ton of big names complain about little things in their SW/HW of choice, especially now where a ton of huge names have twitch channels.

From my experience no, it's not a hobbyist thing, it's a general thing for everyone that needs tools to do their job; the better the tool is the easier your life gets. I see this everywhere... In Music, Development, 3D, CAD/CAM, Graphic Design, Photography basically anything. The more I watch my 'Pro' peers work the more I see we are all the same.

On that 2nd question: Yes for the most part, in Music tend people use whatever works better for them but not always... For example, if you run a professional studio you might be forced to use Pro-Tools due to it still being a standard, you can't tell a client you dont have PT to open a session made elsewhere. Same goes for a lot of design work even if you're the head designer of a huge company you can't just not use the Adobe stuff. Some folks also have brand loyalty for whatever reason or sponsorship deals.

 

Ah I see your point. Sorry for my obviously narrowed vocabulary.
For a better understanding please replace my wording "complaining etc." by "ranting, raging, going berserk".
Hope now it's a little bit clearer what I intended to express.

 

Yeah I think you will probably have a bias of pro Maschine users here, same if you asked on the Ableton forums about Maschine vs Push.

I am a long time Ableton Live user and used both Push 1 and currently Push 2 and also have a Maschine Studio. Integrating Maschine as a controller for Live is almost pointless, I feel the integration was crippled to not make it "too easy" to use with another product, after all Maschine was designed for Maschine like Push is designed for Ableton.

Live/Maschine are different workflows really and people always try compare them because they have big black square controllers that have lots of buttons and coloured lights so they "seem" similar and one can use each for whatever they like but while Maschine is probably better at really having you "in the box" on the hardware and being able to fast load sounds, make quick beats and ideas and generally generate fun and engagement, Push and Live are more for in-depth control and tactile feel.

Push (IMO) is great if you are an experienced Live user who knows what Push will do for you. Again (IMO) it is not a full replacement for a MIDI keyboard (tho can do what a keyboard does), it is not a full replacement for a dedicated track mixer like an MCU (tho it can do this too) and it is not a complete replacement for the mouse and keyboard to have complete hands free workflow (tho it can do a lot here).

It is a "supplemental" controller which offers some fast access to things like automation, beat programming, quick input of note data, adjustment of samples, triggering of clips etc. In the initial ideas stage it is a very useful tool and I use it all the time, especially when programming drums since it can be super fast to whip up and program drums on the fly, duplicate patterns, make fills etc. What I like about Live personally is the clip view for the fact I can build up ideas I have fast and make many different variations and progressions without even thinking about the structure. Then it is simple to switch Push to clip mode and play all the clips out in a progression to build the initial sketch of an idea. Automating things is also great because every track/device you click basically appears on the controller and off you go.

However once I have an idea sketched out in Arrangement view, Push almost takes a back seat completely as most of the work is then done by keyboard/mouse and this is one of the big differences between Maschine and Push is Push is great and useful up to the point you actually want to start getting into the fine points of your project

Where Maschine does better is in the browsing of content and the faster workflow of actually building an idea and playing around with the layout of things. Push is not all that good for browsing sounds and content, mainly because of the poor Ableton browser so you end up back on the mouse a lot to load up VSTs and flick through presets etc. Also it cannot do any of the editing or manipulation of Arrangements, only assist in overdubbing and effects adjustments really.

So this is why I have Push and Maschine because one does not replace the other but I use Push way more than Maschine personally.

Here are some videos of Push "Shortcuts" or workflow tips as an idea more about how you can leverage the power of Push a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4n5V5vooVKAoftVmbu9k5UVn7E1j3dvL

 

Very well composed!!thanks

 

I agree. These were my main reasons for not being able to adapt to Push2, it felt mostly like a "Session View" controller to me and I spend way more time arranging at least on stuff that will be released.

NI's browsing experience is way more advanced than Ableton's, probably the only area where KK/Maschine is more feature-rich altho it does come at a cost of introducing a lot of hassle for people who have their own custom content and dont rely on only preset's and built-in libraries.