Can anyone test this problem for me?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Just A Dawg, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    Hello.

    For some reason a lot of the vinyl kits that come with the MK3 are heavily distorted when I play them with no quantization.

    No matter if I select the MK3 interface, built in or my scarlett 2i2 I get the same distortion.


    Can someone test this for me to see if they get the same results as I do:
    • Go to settings and choose a Buffer Size of 256
    • Load "Dusty Kit" from Groups
    • Make a long pattern
    • Turn GRID (quantization) off. So there's no time correction.
    • Press record and play
    • Repeadetly hit Pad 2 (Snare) and listen for distortion

      Does anyone hear any distortion? I get distortion with a lot of the vinyl kits and especially snare sounds.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,631
    Do you have Quantize during Play / Record enabled in the preferences? If it is you will often hear a pad trigger twice very fast which doesn't really distort anything for me but will cause a phasing type of effect if the pad polyphony is higher than 1 (on kits it's 8 by default), maybe that's what you're hearing?
    It's sort of like a drum flam, but bad... I hear it clearly on the audio examples you posted here.
     
  3. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    Thanks for replying!

    Yes, sometimes it's like a badly layered flam and sometimes it's completely messed up soundwise.

    Quantization is set to 'None' in my settings.

    NI Support has no idea what the problem could be and I literally tried everything I can think of to figure it out...
     
  4. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    I tested all 3 options for Quanization and get the same results for every option.
    Any other setting that could cause it? Or do I need to make changes to the polyphony or sth. else?
     
  5. b-r@nno

    b-r@nno NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    441
    maybe the kit you are trying just has to much "processing" so your CPU can't handle it properly?...
     
  6. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,493
    I went through the steps.
    And these are my findings.

    There is nothing wrong with the sidestick dusty sample.
    It is a stereo sample and therefore you hear something of
    phase shift and in the tail of the sample you hear a natural reverb.

    Lat3.png

    If I play this sample quickly, I hear no distortion.
    Lat4.PNG

    I can, however, reconstruct a flame.
    This is caused by the fact that the quantization is switched off
    and one note exactly ends up at the end of the last bar when it responds.
    Lat5.PNG

    And in my case I have a flame every eight bars.

    I have added also a sample.

    Edit:
    Then I have a question, can you define what you mean by distortion?
    You can record it with a mic and upload it here.
    And what is your audio setup.

    René
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  7. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    My CPU is barely working when Maschine is active and I record sth. The NI support dude said that it's definitely no the CPU because the usage is extremely low in my case. Good suggestion tho.

    Okay, thank you. By distortion I mean a really phased, splashy / bit crunched sound. It could be a flam but maybe sth. else.

    There are no flams or double triggers in my recording though. The issue only appears during recording.

    Here are two audio examples of said distortion:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pw05vn4fyft5jrc/AAAGn8Jj2NNXPqA89k2-hmqUa?dl=0

    It's even more confusing that the vinyl kits are prone to that issue and other kits often don't have it...
     
  8. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,493
    I had already listened to those samples.
    And especially the snare shows distortion in both examples.
    So here you can state that the source is not right.

    Where do these samples come from?
    And what is your audio setup?
    What do you mean by STH?

    René
     
  9. AL’DREAD

    AL’DREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    4,426
    Something
     
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  10. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,631
    "Vinyl" kits will have saturation/distortion, vinyl crackle, vinyl click, noisy tails, bit reduction, sample rate reduction and any "Lo-Fi" fx under the sun, that's their point: To sound old.

    Looking at the second part of the "Distortion Example - Dracula Eastwood Kit.wav" you uploaded where it's just snares hits from the kit, I can clearly see double hits (flam). The blue is from your example wav file and the red is the just the snare of the kit.

    Notice how yours has a second hit, and since that second hit is stacked on top of the previous it will have sort of double the volume, this increase of volume can potentially distort if there's not enough headroom.
    There's also one small peak in the tail in the original sample, on your example there are 2, which further confirms a double-hit. Double hits where one is slightly delayed with a polyphony higher than 1 = phasing.

    [​IMG]

    Notice how they are all double hits except for that one highlighted in the middle:
    [​IMG]

    IMO, you should forget about "distortion" and focus on understanding whats is causing these double hits.

    I only get this double hit issue if I enable Input Rec/Play quantize, and play the pads rather fast, which is natural since Maschine is forcing my pad hits to be on the grid in real-time, but if that's turned off in the preferences then I have no idea what's going on....
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  11. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    The samples come from that stock maschine kits and were recorded internaly in Maschine with the Sampling function.

    Audio setup is MK3 connected to computer via usb (power chord plugged in), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 selected in Maschine, 2i2 connected to computer via USB and outputs connected to two monitors/speakers. But the problem appears with the 2i2, MK3 or built in interface selected.

    STH means something.
     
  12. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    You are the Sherlock Homes of the beatmaking world, D-One. Thanks for the thorough explination and examples. Highly appreciate your efforts.

    I'll play around with the Polyphony tomorrow and see if that makes a difference but having it at 1 locked to avoid problems would be a PITA for me.

    I'll report back tomorrow with my results. Thanks for sticking around and looking into the issue!
     
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  13. Just A Dawg

    Just A Dawg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    My apologies for the late response.

    Okay, I tested how the issue behaves when the polyphony is changed.

    Lo and behold the issue is not present when the polyphony is set to "Legato".


    My test went like this: Loaded different kits (same settings as described in original post at the top) and repeadetly hit Pad 2 with the Snare sample while recording.

    I tested the Polyphony settings 8, 1 and Legato for 4 different kits.

    Adding to my confusion: I did not have any problems with the "Grid Bugs Kit" at Polyphony 8 and 1.

    The other 3 kits had the issue when the polyphony was set to 8 and 1. Only setting it to Legato fixed it.


    Now, any ideas as to why Legato polyphony does not cause problems / double triggers but other settings like poly 8 and 1 do ? :confused: