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Controlling Skrewell

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by Jim Aikin, Nov 10, 2005.

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  1. Jim Aikin

    Jim Aikin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    52
    I'm interested in using Skrewell live, and would like to be able to control more than the knobs along the bottom in real time. I've poked around a bit in the structure without finding the data coming from the 8x8 sliders. Is there a way (easy or not) of creating MIDI inputs for some of the sliders?

    Thanks!

    --Jim Aikin
     
  2. ashwaganda

    ashwaganda Forum Member

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    2,191
    sehr geehrter herr aiken,

    the slider display uses a mouse area / poly display duo to do its sliding. neither of these modules can be controlled via midi (which is why their properties connections pages are blank). so what you have to do is find how lazyfish maps the display changes to the parameter changes, shouldn't be too hard with a little digging around. then you have to insert midi in controllers at the right points to infiltrate the system. again, shouldn't be too traumatic.

    but before you get too far ... you should check out the skrewell remix i've been working on (with ned bouhalassa's guidance). my goal is to improve the sound/musicality of skrewell, both of which i find rather mediocre in the original.

    rachMiel
     
  3. joop

    joop NI Product Owner

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    333
    Will (or has this been) uploaded publically? I really dig the sonic textures created by skrewell (the minimalistic feedback tones are beautiful to my ears) and the overall presence of the tones sounds better than any synth ensamble I've heard (almost as good as Supercollider's audio Ugens). Yet, I can agree some of the tones that come out are pretty useless.

    Never-the-less, I'd be pleased to hear what you come up with.
     
  4. Jim Aikin

    Jim Aikin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    52
    I can see the points where various control signals enter the tone generators, but hacking the structure at that deep level makes me a little nervous. Maybe I'll just automate the global knobs....
     
  5. ashwaganda

    ashwaganda Forum Member

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    2,191
    > Will (or has this been) uploaded publically?

    it will be ... when it's done. :) probably in a week or two. if you want to hear what i have so far, make suggestions for improvements, let me know:

    rachmiel@rachmiel.org

    > I can see the points where various control signals enter the tone generators, but hacking the structure at that deep level makes me a little nervous.

    nervous is good. ;-)

    > Maybe I'll just automate the global knobs....

    that's one of the things i did with the remix. sounds great.

    rick
     
  6. kid_sputnik

    kid_sputnik NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,552
    jim, if you have some time, check out my stalker upload to the user library. it has a similar controller (although i admit not quite up to the Lazyfish standard!), and i added modulation inputs to it. maybe look at that first. what i did is put an adder before the snapvalue module that is used for storing the slider values. this also allows you to see the modulation occuring. also, the similar sliders in newscool R5 and krypt are modulated. maybe look around there.
     
  7. Jedinhopy

    Jedinhopy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    821
    how shall one can make Record Parameter Automation
    on Skrewell's mouse area slider display with Fruity loops 8?.
     
  8. theologiae

    theologiae NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    652
    not very easy, if at all. the mouse area can not be controlled that way. sorry. but what i did (the sneaky brat that i am) is take the "XY" from Krypt and change it out with the mouse area. it plugs right in without a ton of work because lazyfish reuses a lot of his structures, and the "XY" can be controlled.

    i would upload my hack, but NI doesn't want people spreading that stuff around because Krypt is a part of EI2. but buy Krypt, plug it in and your life will shine with the glory of god........er.........maybe just lazyfish (same thing to me).
     
  9. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,265
    Would a screenshot of replacement be possible? I tried the basic change out but it doesn't seem to work...I am probably missing something simple.

    Just a thought, it would be great if NI had an area for EI registered users so such information didn't get 'locked' up so tight and creative variations such as theologiae's could be used to enhance our purchase. Or at least sanctioned additions could be available through our protected update page...especially as some users are actually fixing things left in limbo by NI (the recent Metaphysical repair comes to mind).
     
  10. theologiae

    theologiae NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    652
    yeah, let me dig in there and see what i did.........

    be back later tonight.
     
  11. theologiae

    theologiae NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    652
    ok, here is the long and the short of it. well, more short then long.

    first open up krypt and use the "show in structure" option on one of the XY's (they are both the same in krypt) back out of the structure till you see picture 1's macro. that is the one you want.

    copy that.

    now open up skerwell. you can do the same thing with the multi display if the panel is unlocked, or just dig in there till you find the macro in picture 2 labeled 1ch. go inside this macro and delete all the internals except for the in/out ports. hook the >>> to the in and the out send to >>> out.

    now you are kind of done. the XY has replaced the multi display. and you should be able to automate it all. if not, let me know, i'm doing this kind of fast.

    but if you are like me and you love some random, follow the next two pics. this is inside the krypt macro. going in one level. then go inside of draw. add a merge module and leave it poly. wire up rachmiel's knob randomizer to the merge with the original out. bam! random.

    or at least i hope.

    let me know where i'm going wrong.

    also, you need to ditch the panel art. it just wont work as far as i tried, but then, i'm not a graphics wiz.
     

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  12. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

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    1,265
    Awesome, thanks for taking the time to explain and illustrate...going to dig in after dinner (a theologiae Skrewell remix for desert, hmmm).
    ---
    Well, I think all has gone well (big thanks) EXCEPT, I can't seem to find the 'knob randomize' anywhere locally or in Library (or any of Rick's ensembles that I 'randomly' searched').

    Where does this little treat live?
    ---
    Never mind...I found it :)
     
  13. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,759
    thanks theo,

    but in terms of automation will this? (btw, i haven't tried this yet).

    in Krypt the XY has 6 sliders (because of the number of voices). how can you automate each of those sliders?

    sowari
     
  14. theologiae

    theologiae NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    652
    the thing about krypt and skerwell is they use voices to get their values. so with krypt, it uses 6 voices (of the 350 or so set in the ens.) and skerwell uses 8. so when you plug in the XY, you get 8 faders, not 6.

    or so i think.

    so you have to do some tricky work to get the 8 voice XY to automate, and each application will be a bit different from the next. for standalone automation, just have a poly lfo/random/asdr and offset the values to get a spectrum of sounds. just like newscool, there are lfo that cycle through the values, so you don't end up with al the values in the XY going up and down at the same time.

    there is a lot to explain to get the idea fully, but if you dig into lazyfish's stuff, you will find that most the ideas you are having, he has already put in play. the trick is to pull everything apart so you end up with the XY from one ens. the sounds from another ens. and the lfo from another ens. so there is a lot of playing around you need to do it get the most out of it. this kind of stuff only touches the tip of what one could do.

    as for automation in a host.......i don't mess with that, so i couldn't say. i would guess it would be a bit harder.
     
  15. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,265
    Well the abilty to just 'sweep' the XY via automation alone coaxed many new sounds from Skrewell, thanks for your time to help and explain this 'mod' :)

    And it (the XY automation) makes for some 'pretty pictures:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,759
    that is why i asked ;)

    i was referring back to the Jedinhopy's post where he asks how to Record Parameter Automation in FL 8.

    i know that Herw's modular synth (now no longer in the UL) has a view B where you can assign MIDI Controllers to the knobs for Automation, view A uses Mouse Areas.

    but

    he is not using polyphonic Mouse Areas.

    on the top of my head, i presume you could insert 8 knobs and 8 merges into the structure and still use the display as a display (in krypt that would still be the XY). but then you would also have to to voice Modules and a routing device to route the knobs to the parameters.

    a time consuming task :|

    sowari
     
  17. theologiae

    theologiae NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    652
    yeah, this was always the real solution to the automation problem. and that goes for any of the R5 stuff. but like you say, it takes a lot of time to get that you work. i think herw solution would most likely be the best for everyone out there for skerwell, but because this hack is so easy and straight forward, i've used this. i just record the parts and them bring the wav.'s into a host.

    as for using a poly XY in a host, and having that host control all the 8 perm. like they would a knob, i really don't think that could be done.

    any body have an idea out there?

    oh and chris, that looks sick.
     
  18. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,265
    Holy Skrewell Batman! This mod turned into a 'lost weekend'. I finally finished 11 hours! worth of variations from this, between the UL and this forum there is always a muse to be found.

    Thanks goodness I could build a 'self running' machine to do this as I finally needed some sleep (Logic running automation to both vary and create 2~3 min pre-faded bounces in 'batches' of hours offline (up to the 2 Gb limit per bounce) then used the single 'take' time lengths to slice back into the individual files 'by marker').

    Amazing how many times I heard something startling and inspiring from what I had thought was a somewhat exhausted resource.

    Thanks again for your explanation and share theologiae :)
     
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