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Solved Copyright against use of maschine expansion project

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by neh, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. neh

    neh NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    4
    Hi

    I've just received a copy right claim against some music that I'm using for a game trailer I made. It's basically a template project from a maschine expansion with some melody changes.

    My question is where do I stand on this? the record label have referenced a track from one of their artists that has also used the exact same template track and patterns in a short section on one their tracks. surely they can't claim for this as they don't own those samples / patterns etc?

    I'm not massively wedded to it but I'm kind of irritated that I've paid for this expansion on the understanding that I can do what I want with other than make competing sample packs etc. and I'm left open to this kind stuff.
     
  2. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    404
    Well, I would argue, that you have used Maschine Expansion and that bought licence entitles you to use it for your creative proces. Either directly or modified.

    And that it is possible that Label artist used the same Maschine Expansion. And so the artist does not have the right to claim the copyright for this particular piece of tune, as the copyright owns NI or creator of Expansion....

    It also depends which country it is and what copyright law is applicable.... The best would be to contact NI and ask them to sort it out.

    There is also possibility that creator of given Expansion sort of violated copyright and enclosed in Expansion tune that is copyright of someone else... It may happen the both intentionaly or unintentionaly.

    If it is clear that given artist used the same expansion as you, simply argue that that piece comes from the same copyrighted source - NI Expansion. Name the Expansion and the project name and add stems - export of all sounds of that piece. And that you have right to use that copyrighted materiál in your copyrighted work derived from NI's copyrighted work.
     
  3. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI Support Team NI Team

    Messages:
    1,462
    You can find the following information in our EULA: "The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement."
    You can use our expansions commercially and so I'm not sure where everyone stands here in terms of copyright. This is something you'd have to check with the label or a lawyer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. neh

    neh NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    4
    Yeah I've disputed it with youtube and emailed the label directly. will see how it pans out.
     
  5. neh

    neh NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    4
    this is kind of where I'm coming from. the passage in the song they've disputed is basically the stems from the expansion verbatim so I don't believe they can assert copyright over that tbh. I'm in touch with them and will see how it pans out.
     
  6. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI Support Team NI Team

    Messages:
    1,462
    • Like Like x 1
  7. v00d00ppl

    v00d00ppl NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    174
    You should be in the clear if you show them the EULA. YouTube has an agressive also that tries to group things that sound similar together even though they are not. This is happening because Twitch/ YouTube streamers are using other people’s music without consent and pitching it during their streams. This is forcing the streaming companies to be more agressive to avoid legal action from the labels.
     
  8. Jason McCormack

    Jason McCormack New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Can Native Instruments provide clear guidance on if artists can claim the writers share of royalties? That could create a conflict because we essentially release our arrangement samples from these products like maschine expansions. Can 2 artists release different arrangements both claiming the writers share of royalties?
     
  9. Murat Kayi

    Murat Kayi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    247
    Matt @ NI I notice that patterns
    are not mentioned, what about those?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. SteveK

    SteveK NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    25
    Besides the fact that it is not very clever to use a melody from a tool that thousands of people are using.... ;-)

    I guess you can only have copyright (proprietary right) on things that you have created. The other track was just using a pattern from Machine - they can not claim property for that. Of course the label of the other track will try to claim the copyright but I doubt that a court will accept that. It is the same when you use a melody loop of a (royalty free) sample. Nobody can blame you for using it in another track. And somebody who just used it first does not neccessarily have the rights for it. - Imagine all these vocal sample productions around! You can buy these royalty free samples and use them. Of course others will use them too - but nobody can claim the copyright here. Only the originator can claim proprietary rights.
     
  11. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    404
    You are right. But the Label does not know the Artist used widely accesible template as base for his "work".... And if one tells Label, I used the same template like your artist, so no violation of rights of your artist.... And Label insists. Who would like to go to court, pay lawyers and even if result should be clear, it is not ever so at the court. And intelektuál property low is quite tricky.
    At times I needed intelektuál property law consultation and most lawyers replied, intellectual property, my god NO. I had to find lawyer just specialised in intellectual property law, who took twice as much comparing to 'ordinary' lawyer.....

    So, besides it is not 'creative' to use midi fragments created by someone else. Be it royalty free. It is also potentialy risky. The creator of 'royality free' content might violate someone's intellectual property rights. (Probably not intentionaly, but he could hear a tune and later on 'create' it again). Or just artist uses the same midi piece and one has to 'negotiate' with Label. And lose the time.

    It might not have been such a problém in past. Nobody would find out, if it is not TOP20 hit... But with advanced scanning, indexing and checking almost all internet content, it is much easier to find similar/same tunes and 'protect' copyright.....
     
  12. Matt @ NI

    Matt @ NI Support Team NI Team

    Messages:
    1,462
    Same for patterns - whatever content you find with the expansions is usage free.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Murat Kayi

    Murat Kayi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    247
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,725
    I'd say this is a good example of why you don't just use provided patterns and loops as the core element and really invest in creating your own content. When everyone starts using the same preset material, loops and insta-puff midi patterns and pumping out the same point and click projects, everything starts to sound the same and then arguments start with who owns the creative license. If you are going to use demo material, at least make it different enough so it doesn't have the chance to cause a copyright claim. If it is being striked, it's not being changed enough to be unique in the first place.

    Just make something different/original and you will be good, hardly worth investing in legal action over using microwaved leftovers but if you choose to take pre-produced stuff and pass it off as original, prepare for someone else to pipe up and do the same.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6,785
    Jester, if you use my 'pata physical Reaktor ensembles you get different results every time you record a tune.
     
  16. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,725
    I guess that’s cool if you want a different result every time, typically if I want a “different” result I want a controlled random output where I can at least replicate something again or compare results. Rarely do I want a different output each time tho, would make sequencing other instruments a challenge
     
  17. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    404
    Yes, but one may feed 'fastfood' pattern to PATA or something similar, record the result and use it further as fixed.

    But, it is better to create ones own pattern. More fun, more creativity....