Cr-78

This is a reply for Andy Robins to the CR-78 discussion in his ARP Odyssey Mk III comments in the UL:

Yes, the CR-78 seems to show up in alot of those classic synth/wave tracks - a quick google search turned up:

Heart of Glass by Blondie
In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins
Same Old Scene by Roxy Music
Enola Gay by Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark
Underpass by John Foxx.

(... to say nothing of "metal beat")

I downloaded a PDF of the owners manual for the CR-78 last night (http://eatstapes.com/cr78.zip) - and I have some single hit samples and a couple of presets for reference (not to mention "metamatic" etc.) ... but I've never had a chance to play with one.

The manual lists 11 instruments and 34 presets, along with different kinds of kinds of "add voice" and "metallic beat" variations, and a "cancel voice" feature that cancels instrument sounds in the presets for further variation.

They also have "long" and "short" fade in and out (just like on my beloved TR-77!)

There is also an "accent" feature.

There are some nice other features too, like automatic variation control, where you can automatically insert variations in the last measure in a set range (4, 8 etc.)

The manual also features music notation for all of the presets(!), though the PDF reproduction is pretty poor in places. The presets are:

Rock 1-4, Disco 1-2, Waltz, Shuffle, Slow Rock, Swing, Fox Trot, Tango, Boogie, Enka, Bossanova, Samba, Mambo, Cha Cha, Beguine, Rhumba

Sounds are:

Bass drum, Snare, Rim shot, Hi-hat, Cymbal, Maracas, Claves, Cow Bell, High Bongo, Low Bongo, Low Conga.

Variations are:

Fill in 1-7, break, rhythm (a-b), Rolling (HB, SD)

The cancel buttons are for the cymbal + high hat, bass drum, snare drum, cow bell + claves.

Add voice seems to mix in tambourine or guiro.

Metallic beat gets it's own fader!

I, like many other people seduced by ye olde drum machines, was pretty interested in buying a CR-78... until the ebay auctions went completely ballistic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Roland-...ryZ64382QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I bought a TR-77, which is pretty fun, especially because you can mash multiple buttons in for variations like Beguine/Rock/Parade - cool!

There are some nice Reaktor ensembles for these sorts of sounds (the series of "Ba" drum machines and C-Lists CL-909 spring to mind) - I've also made some sample maps using the TR-77 and CR-78 sounds I have - fun to play with in various Reaktor ensembles - and I've run some TR-77 presets through various beat manglers to good effect... but I must admit, I'm quite partial to presets!

Michael

 

I would love to do the skin and panel elements for that if anyone puts it together. I really would like to do that its right up my alley!

 

It's beyond me, but I'd be thrilled if someone took this on... perhaps re-structuring and modding an existing UL ensemble would be a good start? There's no shortage of older (pre-Reaktor 4) drum machine ensembles in the library... I think the presets, and preset variations would be the "new" angle maybe...

 

Further to skinning and panel elements... check it out (flicker gallery):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matrixsynth/sets/72157594369559959/

 

This is a really interesting idea.

I must confess, however, that I've not been particularly partial to Reaktor drum machines in the UL. While I recognize and respect the amount of work that has gone into them as a non-designer, the controls tend to be kind of difficult -- not being able to drag the mouse across to engage multiple buttons at a time, etc. Perhaps that's just the specific design thing, but given that the 808 (or Reason's ReDrum) is the obvious model for this sort of thing, I've generally found the GUI to be an obstacle to practical use as a musician.

Am I alone?

Anyway, that said, I'd love to use a virtual CR-78 -- I agree, the sounds are so vintage and the design so quirky, it would be a lot of fun to try out.

 

I understand what you mean about the importance of the structure (GUI) as far as usability and musicality. Because I like to use Reaktor in standalone (thus avoiding my pro tools related Reaktor troubles), and then bring recorded elements into my DAW (or convert them to rex files), I prefer drum machines that incorporate multi-outs or built-in mixers, that allow me to mute channels easily, and that allow me to audition some simple effects processing on individual channels as well. This just suits how I work.

Your Redrum example is well taken, I'm nowhere near as fast with any of the Reaktor drum machines, from the UL or otherwise, as I am with Reason's redrum -- and it's not only because I've spent more time (as an environment) in Reason than in Reaktor. On the flipside, I prefer Reaktor's synthesis drum machines to Redrums sample-based equivilents... though I use Reason for some sampling duties (NN-XT) as it's easy and quick. I must admit, I don't have all of my workflow issues worked out!

A large part of my interest in the CR-78 stems from it's quirky design - I like the limited palette of working with colourful, kitschy presets as a base for songwriting. I would be curios about the possiblities for modding a CL-909 or aerobic-like drum machine with preset patterns that could be layered, varied (in set ways), have voices cancelled etc. and to program it with "classic" beat box rhythms (Rhumba, Rock, Surf) ... and of course, with a metallic beat preset overlay!

I know it' sounds a little like hobbling a racehorse...

 

I pretty much completely agree with what you say -- although I'm interested to know which Reaktor synthesis drum machines you're talking about. As for the CR-78, absolutely -- that's what intrigues me about it, too.

 

The Reaktor drum machines that spring to mind are Aerobic, CL-909 (the original version in the UL, the buggy one that is the subject of my other recent thread - which uses synthesis and samples), More or less all of Ba's drummachines (which are a bit brutalist GUI-wise but they can be coaxed into making interesting sounds: TR-608, Pre Skool, Gods beatbox)... AB-99 (again hybrid)... I'd probably include sinebeats too... though I'm not sure it fits the bill exactly... hmmm... am I missing any? Can you give me an example of (soft) drum synthesis you do like? Have you tried Nepheton?

 

ReDrum

As for the ReDrum, there's a nice emulation by Stephan V. called RedDrum. As for multiple knob selection, it's not the GUI, it's Reaktor restricting that.

 

Thanks for the tip - I'll check it out - though I'm not as interested in the drum sample ensembles as I am in the drum synthesis ensembles.

 

On the vintage drum tip, just picked this up:

http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/autorhythms.html

There are some CR-68 samples (wav/rex) on his 'Free Stuff' page.

 

Thanks for the tip - you can find some free presets on:

http://www.dubsounds.com/samples-drums-index.htm

...along with some very nice commercial (cheap) collections of "rex'd" classics (korg 55b, tr-77 etc.)...

... Love the sound of the Micro Rythmer... you can find an ancient (1996) set of samples of the presets here:

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Univox/Micro-Rhythmer-12/samples/?0022

 

Wow, right back at ya...some great memories there!

 

Yes, I'm still waiting on the CR-78 sampleset Dubsounds has been working on... I have yet to buy any of their products, though I'm sorely tempted by the Korg-55B... I'll probably cave in when the CR-78 set rolls around... The TR-77 set is impressive too, but I own a TR-77...