Discussion: Resizeable Windows, Yes or No??

Hi @ll

I had a look to the TOP10-Thread. Some of you asked for reziseable windows. I have a question regarding this. A reziseable window means, that not all buttons will be available. If you are in a panik-situation, maybe the song will end soon, you first have to maximize the window and then are able, to operate.

Reziseable Windows have their right to exist in applications, how in example "Explorer" or "Word". These are not time-critical. But for real live situations this is not recommended. For this applications everything has to be find at a desired place. Otherwise you cannot "burn the functions into the fingers". If you first have to have a look, where the desired function has been hidden, it may be too late. The life-DJ has not the time for searching, when the party is really burning. We have now the view-switch. This is some kind of rezise-ability, what is still consistent with the purpose of Traktor.

Why do so much people ask for a hardware controller? There are three main-reasons. The first is, because special design for special functions is better to handle. The second is, because you need the feeling in your fingers, what you do. The third is, to have everything at a disired place. Thus Traktor Interface should be a kind of this.

How do the requestors of this feature assess this. We have to keep in mind, that Traktor is a software for professional and not for home-DJing. I cannot understand this, but I want to do. Could someone explain this to me, please?

best wishes
brotherssledge

 

No arguments against my questions?

 

I agree with the premise of your argument and am against resizable windows. However, I think that you're overlooking something. If you're serious about speed in Traktor, you're probably not going to be using the on-screen controls anyway. Personally, I would say that I spend about 95% of the time using keyboard commands and my UC-16 when I'm live. I rarely use any mouse based stuff when I run live. That being said, I still agree that the window should'nt be resizable because of the nature of the program.

 

gmint, I agree completly with you. I go a step further yet.

I use Traktor only beside my other equipment. I am waiting, until we get a hardware controller. Further I am waiting for the search-loop (-wheel), which is implemented in every DJplayer today and one of the mostly used features there. Most CD-mixing DJs in the clubs cue nearly every song with it. And it makes some kind of digital mixing possible, which is hardly possible with vinyl (for instance multiple beat-matching sample firing). Search-Loop is indispensable for digital and the fastest possible cueing. The Traktor cueing is too slow, too troublesome and too erring. And search-loop is is not doable on a UC, sorry. I think, if implemented, it is better to handle with a mouse ... or more better with a controller wheel of course.

Yes, you are right. It is the nature of the program, I tried to describe this nature in detail. Let me say, that the fixed GUI is not only important for acting on it, but also for seeing it. There are functions on the display, which never!! must diappear.

brotherssledge

 

there are 2 reasons why i want resizable windows. the first was in traktor 2 where you couldn't enlarge the window at all (for a 1200x1000 flatscreen, for example). that is fixed now.

but my second traktor is on a JVC subnotebook that has a 1024x600 screen. so i always miss out on the last lines of the browser, which is a total hassle. and it's so cool to dj with this extra mini notebook, i can stuff every thing i need into a backpack (including a UC-16 and my mixer), so i think that this will become popular now that those notebooks have the power to run traktor well

so vertical resizing should be possible in both directions in my opinion, especially since i can't see that it would be difficult to implement.

horizontal resizing is a different story; and i'd say that there are other things i'd rather see implemented before this is addressed.

cheers, h00la

 

If the sub-windows (browser, mixer, loop, filter etc) that make up Traktor were dockable and resizeable that would give the user some flexibility and allow the display screen to be used more fully.

Check this page from the Sony (formerly Sonic Foundry) website showing the multiple dockable windows used in their Vegas 5 video edit program. I've used Vegas 4 and the multiple windows are excellent.
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=913&FeatureID=7618

Here are some current laptop screen resolutions. The extra resolution costs as little as US$100 or $200 extra on some Dell notebooks so this technology is not too expensive. BTW the current Traktor is great on a 1400 x 1050 screen and I'd like to try it on a 1680 x 1050 notebook.

15 inch normal screen
XGA 1024 x 768
SXGA+ 1400 x 1050
UXGA 1600 x 1200

15.4 inch widescreen
WXGA 1280 x 800
WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050
WUXGA 1920 x 1200

 

@Vince

I looked at the page you referenced, and I really don't see how that supports the contention that Traktor should have resizable windows. In fact, personally I felt like it was more compelling as a reason NOT to have resizable windows.

There's absolutely no question that things like tabs, dockable windows, and other space saving interface elements are great for most programs, but what some of us are arguing is that it isn't proper for a live performance program. The way Traktor is currently set up (i.e. sections can be turned off to save space) is very adequate IMHO with one notable exception--I wish you could still use some controls even when they are turned off (I'm refering specifically to the kills here, as my mixer has knobs for kills but not buttons--something I could change if I could assign keyboard buttons to kills even though I'm using an external mixer). But, I digress.

 

I've had an idea for a while, but forgot about it since i stopped using the EQs in Traktor in favor of the filters. But as gmint mentioned, when in external mixer mode, you cannot use the EQ kills, so... while in external mixer mode, would be fair to assume that having functional keyboard shortcuts for these be useful to a majority? Should there be a preference in the setup screen to enable and disable this feature? Remember, your input is going to shape how the next version of Traktor is controlled.

Hobbes

 

I've passed that along to NI in a very long list of things.

But one of the basic things about the post I sent them was customabilty. When using a product named Traktor DJ Studio, I'd expect it to laden with features that maybe I wouldn't use, but someone might. And to be able to customize Traktor as my needs/styles/comfortably changes. I compared it to Kontakt, which I find highly customizable. There are just a lot of things in Traktor that I should have a choice on if I want to use it or not. Like being able to kill EQ with external mixer - or use any of the internal mixer features with an external mixer. There isn't any reason for it to be one or the other. Using an external mixer won't confuse Traktor. Let me be the one who's confused. Traktor is just a programs and I should be able to customize it to my styles.

Just because I use an external mixer, doesn't mean I don't want to use the internal EQ. I might be using the external mixer for the 'hands on feel' of cross fading. And the external mixer I use doesn't even have EQ's! So, I would want to still use the internal of Traktor.

 

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes !!!!!

The external mixer I use is a rather sordid thing that has no kills, which I really need to keep basslines from clashing... and imagine my surprise when I hooked it up to the external mixer for the first time and suddenly saw the internal mixer dissapear... noooooooo!

 

I think resizeable windows would be a great idea, but......

you need to keep the two buttons (marked "1" & "2" at the top of the screen) that return you to the main traktor views.
If you're in a panic, & can't find a button. All you have to do is press the "1" button & you're back at the main screen.

 

@Dj Hobbes

I think that would be fine. I too have been wanting to request that feature for some time, but I always keep forgetting about it unless I'm at a gig thinking about how great it would be.

I would like to suggest one addition though. Just as we have the mini-mixer section now, maybe there could be an even thinner version that would at least show kill lights when ever they are active. I hate to admit it, but even with switches (where I can clearly see what position they are in) I still forget to flip them off when need be sometims. If I'm blind as to their state, I can't imagine I would do much better. In any case, I do think that the EQ section would be very usefull for those of us who use external mixers.

Addendum: Actually, I re-read your earlier post Hobbes and I was thinking, even though it is pretty packed right now, maybe it would be possible to somehow combine this functionality into the filter section. After all, that's kind of where it belongs.

 

I cannot find this word in any dictionary. Can someone discribe it or translate in German?

 

...and with it also disappears the possibility to pre-hear a song from the browser.

Yes, I agree full with this possibility. We need then a main control window, which is never!! hideable at a desired place at the top of the screen. And we need as soon as any resizeable windows or any configuration of the GUI is introduced, a point in the options, to forbid this. And there must be an indicator in the main control window, that this forbidding is activated. The same is needed for forbidding Traktor, to be terminated.

brotherssledge

 

Actually, this is something that I WISH would totally go away when the external mixer is on.

I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's exactly what the "Live" button does. Believe me, I know, since I use command-1 to load my tracks in to deck A, it's pretty close to command-q which would be the opposite effect that I'm going for when trying to load a track. It's definitely saved me on more than one occassion!

 

.... with one critical difference

The Live Button is in the GUI .. and with this maybe pushed by accident. What I wanted, was to forbid closing of Traktor in the OPTIONS!!. The "Live" button could remain as an indicator.

Now I do not understand. You do not want the browser pre-hear-monitor?
What problems occur with it? Of course it should have a separate output channel, when external mixer is on. This should protect against disturbing the main output lines.

 

NI discussing the possibility of enabling the browser player. This will work in one of two ways. Either the browser player will play through the onboard sound device of the computer only, or the user will need to be able to output six channels instead of four.

Hobbes

 

Well, I think that would probably take some doing (inadvertently pressing the button, that is), but I guess one more layer of security in that area couldn't hurt.

That's the biggest problem with the current implementaton. It just doesn't serve a purpose when you're using an outboard mixer, and I would hate to hit it when I've got some serious timestretching going on and putting additional stress on the processor.

@Hobbes

I wouldn't be against that possiblity, but I have to say that I don't know if it would be that beneficial (I would guess that's why it isn't currently implemented). IHMO, I think it would be kind of a pain in the butt to listen to a track in the browser, decide you like it, and then bring it up to the deck to cue up. Usually, if I like a track, I want to cue it up during pre-listening. But, I could see how others might like to do it differently.

 

If stress is the problem at pre-hearing-monitor, it should possible to disable it in the options. (you know: every feature could be a bug, as long as you cannot disable it. ) The stress is not the reason, why it is deactivated. This is the case since the beginning of Traktor, where stretching was no theme.

The goodies of this monitor-feature : Supposed a song is playing in a deck and another is prepared to start (activating loops, loop counts , start-cued and so on). If you want to pre-hear a further song, you have to remove the already prepared song and after hearing you have to search for the other song once more, put it in the deck and do the preparings once more. Thus you get under time pressure with both. Also the pre-hear channel could be used as the third featureless player for instance for jingles.

 

The file browser should be a separate resizable window.