"Drawing" modulator automation using a line/curve tool

Discussion in 'Feature Request Archive' started by bunderson, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. bunderson

    bunderson New Member

    Messages:
    14
    New to the Maschine but it seems an obvious omission to me that there is no way to draw a pure straight line or curve in the modulator automation window. I'm trying to create a pitch riser for the breakdown of a track but moving the knob using AUTO WRITE or using the mouse to draw the pins onto the board are not perfect enough.
     
    • Like Like x 19
  2. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    10,600
  3. danhilton

    danhilton New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I've just been trying to work out exactly how to do this! Can't achieve a smooth automation curve presently. Anyone know if this is going to be a feature of 2.2? Does seem a rather big omission.
     
  4. _eric_

    _eric_ New Member

    Messages:
    11
  5. blackers

    blackers New Member

    Messages:
    15
    +1 on this, i find it very important.
     
  6. SCARYMAN

    SCARYMAN Forum Member

    Messages:
    673
    This really needs to be sorted out because the way it is at the moment is totally crap...... It should be a relatively simple thing to do but the fiddliness is infuriating
     
  7. 2046

    2046 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    117
    +1
    if not bezier-whatever curves then the linear transposition between two (basically all) points would be awesome.
    Who actually needs binary transposition in sound? It is more than less "linear" anyway.

    Btw: a cleaning function would be awesome too. Like, let us write the dirty values by knob, what ever, and then let the function clean the unnecessary points with adjustable degree of precession.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. dezai

    dezai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    Yes, I'd like to use Maschine exclusively, but lack of automation lines/curves keeps me from doing so. It's very tedious as it stand.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. SCARYMAN

    SCARYMAN Forum Member

    Messages:
    673
    The only way to get anywhere near decent increments is once you've recorded your automation copy the pattern and go into step mode to fine tune markers....... It's still very tedious and time consuming but does kinda work...... The reason I say copy the pattern is incase you bugger up the new one you'll still have the original.... :)
     
  10. will4laptop

    will4laptop NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    48
    +1!
    Please add this; auto write is fun to experiment with, but it is tedious to get right. And drawing the line/curve out many individual points is miserable. There is a reason people pay for Adobe Illustrator even though, theoretically, they could make the same images in MS Paint 1px at a time...

    Bonus points of there was a curve-fitting tool available – sort of like quantize for automation: allow the user to record points with Auto Write, then, click a button later to fit a line/curve to their automation points, which would then be much easier to edit.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Turbulance

    Turbulance New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I support this request but should point out that you can draw (roughly) the 'curve' using Paint mode and drag the curve to be the way you would prefer then tweak it using Select mode.

    If you hate what you've done then use Erase mode and drag over the section of the curve and it will reset to the default.

    It's awkward but workable.

    In the days of manual sync before MIDI turning control knobs were the main method of 'automation' and they where never exact lines or besiere curves. The curves in Machine may look messy but may sound just fine to the ear. In fact they introduce a random, human element into the automation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  12. Turbulance

    Turbulance New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Just an additional note: when drawing curves set the grid to 1/128 and you can make very fine curves (though as this causes 128 events per bar tweaking with the Select mode becomes mostly out of the question).
     
  13. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,818
    @Turbulance I think most users wanting this improvement know about the extremely tedious mouse-based method of getting approximate curves. While I agree that doing it with the knobs can add a more human element, sometimes you just want a straightforward linear fade from the beginning of the Pattern to the end. This should not take as long as it does with the tedious mouse (or step mode) method and ease of accomplishing these boring tasks is supposed to be one of the perks of using software in the first place.
     
  14. Turbulance

    Turbulance New Member

    Messages:
    7
    @Mr36

    I understand that frustration, which is why I wrote that I support this feature request. I too want to simplify the automation of instruments.

    But the current reality is that we don't have this feature and until and if NI choses to add this feature we have to make do.

    I'm might be new to Maschine and these forums (and it will take me ages to catchup with all the threads) but given I have over 30 years of using software and 20 years working in the hardware and software support industry, I felt I could contribute something for any new or unexpirenced user. Surely you would not begrudge me that right?

    Also, there is one thing that has taken me a longtime to understand and that is do not to let software imperfections ruin the overall experience.

    We can make suggestions but the software company has the right to prioritise or even reject these suggestions. I used to get so tied up in knots over these things I stopped using the software. Like when my new car got its first dent or scratch, I could hardly look at the thing. I try not to let that get to me now.

    Further, I imagine there is a wide range of users on this forum, from the die hard, long term users through to the brand new. A few words on a post aimed at such users that might get benefit from a repeat of the basics, isn't worth an experienced user's time.

    By all means correct me if I post something that is technically inaccurate, otherwise just read on, to reply causes you to lose valuable time that could be better used creating next killer track.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,818
    Not begrudging you anything, just contributing to the discussion and (re)stating the other side.

    If NI thinks we can manage without a feature, they won't bother. ;)
    (They don't seem to bother with a whole lot of features we are bothered about!)
     
  16. Turbulance

    Turbulance New Member

    Messages:
    7
    @Mr36

    Thanks. I'm so new here that Im still feeling that little bit of fear that entering a new forum always brings.

    This is by no means my first software forum or commercial software support group. All software companies seem to behave this way. It is vey frustrating at times.

    In fact, I upgraded to Maschine after, at first, purchasing an M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro. M-Audio' s support forum had a small number of active TFP users but the TFP currently has a major flaw in its firmware that renders using it as a slave very difficult (I spent around 30 hours analysing the actual MIDI traffic and finally identified the two logic flaws in the TFP's handling of MIDI sync messages. I then provided these findings to the forum and M-Audio, along with detailed information on these fault, including graphic examples that demonstrated how bad they were).

    About 6 of us ended up jumping ship, after 2 months of trying to get M-Audio support just to acknowledge the problem. Let alone to get them to to tell us if a firmware fix was in production and how long we might be waiting before it would be released (remember the TFP is just six months old and to date M-Audio has on released two drivers, the first of which crippled the TFP).

    As the TFP is a hardware sequencer, it was essential for my workflow, to be able to record the sequence into my DAW. These syncing faults made this so tedious that in the end I downloaded the Mascine manuals (to verify that NI's controller would meet my needs) and then I returned the TFP (based on its inability to perform to its own specificicats) and upgraded to a gold Maschine 2 (the last of the gold in stock had a heavy discount as well, which made the upgrade less painful).

    At least NI continues to upgrade the software and even retain compatibility with the original hardware. Few companies do this. But it must be understood that supporting multiple hardware models increases the complexity of software updates (multiple testing requirements, etcetera). NI will only have a finite amount of resources available to do all of this and they have to prioritise what gets added and when.

    Further after my experiences with the TFP, I can see the difference between M-Audio and NI. It is night and day.

    That was the second reason I returned the TFP. Support and software updates are expensive. They do not make the company money until they are released and then only with new customers or when a major revision required an upgrade fee. I couldn't see M-Audio being anywhere near as committed to the future of the TFP as NI is of all of its products.

    I believe this is partly why NI's products are more expensive than say M-Audio's. The extra cost help fund on going support and development.

    My aim with all this text (I'm a very wordy writer anyway) is to say the NI will have their reasons and, as with all things, we must learn to use what we do have, in a way that doesn't ruin our overall joy of using the product but also know when to part company with a product that will never meat its potential.
     
  17. Jacob Bolton

    Jacob Bolton New Member

    Messages:
    2
  18. tattootroy

    tattootroy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    77
    yes code it in
     
  19. Olihop

    Olihop NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    392
  20. AntonA1

    AntonA1 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,710
    +1 ...re "in a way that doesn't ruin our overall joy of using the product but also know when to part company with a product that will never meat its potential."...I think we all oscillate between elation and despair with our Maschine controllers for various reasons, from software to hardware, as well as frustrations with how the company is run, as well as, let's face it, personal reasons (whatever we're going through in life). In a perfect world it would just work, or at the very least be updated with the needed essentials, not break what was working previously, provide transparent updates on what's planned, have better QA for the hardware. But it is what it is...sometimes our joy is in creation and discovery, sometimes a sledge hammer seems like the best solution ;). My big thing is: how do they manage to f&*k up something with so much potential, and also not take cues from the competition and customer base? How have they managed to have such a disconnect between their three verticals for so long? How do they manage to put out so many failed updates, and also not get stuff ready in time for emerging Operating Systems? How have they managed to refuse to cooperate with other companies and manufacturers (walled garden approach), and still sell us their software and hardware? Because all these things combined do create a certain level of frustration amongst us the users. And everyone pays the price. Let me be perfectly plain and state the obvious: N.I. needs to reinvent itself to stay relevant in the 21st century. You think Kore was a bad joke? Well, what's happening right now is business suicide...and a lot of ppl will need to see some serious changes to have their confidence in the company restored. Amen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015