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Elastic Beatgrids in Traktor: WHEN?

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by dj_estrela, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    After the sucess of the smart playlists thread, maybe a similar named thread for elastic beatgrids would be sucessfull as well :)
    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/smart-playlists-in-traktor-when.140695/

    Use cases:
    • Tracks with unsteady BPMs
      • either from live drummers, or Old disco / 80s Pop tracks
    • Tracks with multiple BPMs
      • Transition tracks with abrupt ot smooth changes
    Why manual adjustment is not a solution:
    • Beatjumps:
      • Impossible to fix in advance because the jump happens instantaneously
    • FX BPM-synced effects: (eg delay)
      • Impossible to fix in any situation, because FX fully depend on the beatgrid
    • AutoLoops:
      • IN point: with quantize off, you have to enable the loop at precisely the right time
      • OUT point: In this case you have to immediately enter "loop out adjust mode" to fix the out point as fast as you can
    • Sync beatmatch:
      • In this case you HAVE to compensate continuously using the jogwheels on the whole eg. 60s transition (manual beatmatch)
    Emulating elastic beatgrids is NOT a solution:

    Previous requests:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  2. Moxie

    Moxie NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    30
    I'm not going to hold my breath, but it sure would reduce track prep (Ableton) and open up possibilities for impossible to beatgrid tracks and genres!
     
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  3. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    bump
     
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  4. X-Tropic

    X-Tropic NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    66
    It would be great to make a special mode for stretching the grid, indicating the beginning and end of the bpm change. That way we could control each track ourselves and keep track of all tempo changes.
     
  5. Almaz

    Almaz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    809
    but we can put few control points in those places where the grid stops coinciding?

    upload_2020-9-25_5-21-9.png
     
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  6. X-Tropic

    X-Tropic NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    66
    I think yes, but initially there should be a mode for stretching the grid. (for example, from 127 to 90 bpm)
     
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  7. djsubculture

    djsubculture NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    161
    I've tried that in the past, didn't work very well.
     
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  8. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    I made this route automatically, to add a beatmarker every 4 beats. In the end it looks like this:
    https://github.com/pestrela/music/b...-beatgrids-in-traktor---more-complex-workflow
    upload_2020-9-25_18-18-49.png

    This helps a lot, but it is still not the real thing. Because the 4th beat easily drifts for far too much, because of the fixed BPM.
     
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  9. Almaz

    Almaz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    809
  10. Pepito139

    Pepito139 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    After the smart list implementation, I hope the focus for 3.5 will be this... I support this suggestion :p
     
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  11. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
  12. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    695
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  13. Mutis

    Mutis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    814
    In time between many things have occured. I will not be so “positive” (but neither totally negative) until some feedback come from NI clearing things up.
     
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  14. Catarino

    Catarino New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Honestly, if they would add elastic beatgrids it would be perfect
     
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  15. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    227
    Even if they add it, they will still be behind the competiton, but a huge gap will be closed. The problem is, as far as I know, the code of traktor is so bad and legacy, that it takes ridiculous amount of time to add new features.
     
  16. nickygdj

    nickygdj NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    24
    Since Ableton already does this with the warp in an excellent way, the right and brilliant idea would be:
    1. Use the same functionality as the alastic grid in traktor
    2. have some sort of universal trace exchange. let me explain:
    for example being able to insert the elastic grid in traktor and with the same settings open the same file with the warp set (previously in traktor), or vice versa
    This could speed up configuration for both software. (think about those who use traktor for live nights, and ableton for radio mixtapes, should prepare the tracks for each software, this way it would speed things up)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  17. Matthew Read

    Matthew Read New Member

    Messages:
    12
    This traktor software being so far behind, this IS big deal. Along with A.i stems. Native really missed out on that one.. native stems solution sucks big time in comparison.

    But definitely.. elastic beat grids is so needed..

    Hopefully both will comes with the ZX Mixer they have planned with 8 cue trigger pads, and a touch screen, and full mixer control of all FX parameters,
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Wyley

    Wyley NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,445
    I think elastic grids are on the way and I’ll use the feature for sure.

    Even with elastic grids you’ll still have to set manual loops for a lot of tracks though.
     
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  19. nickygdj

    nickygdj NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    24
    Surely even with the elastic Grids they will have to be set manually to make the songs coincide, the IMPORTANT is to have the possibility to do it.
    I think of many 80s songs, other 90s with an inconsistent grid.
    But also many 2018/2021 Dance songs ... They have some grid errors (maybe by some non-professional producers, sometimes on Internazional HITs)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Wyley

    Wyley NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,445
    It’s not so much the grid but about the timing of each individual playing their live instruments in the recording.

    Sometimes to grab a perfect loop or sample you will still have set it manually and off grid. Some will mistaken this as a bug when the feature arrives.