Envelope

Hi...

I'm trying to set enveloppe like to still react when the not has began. Let me explain... By default, for example, the sustain setting is fixed by how was the value when the note begins and if you change the sustain value when the note has began, it doesn't change anything. I believe cause I've seen it that it is possible to change the value e.g. the portamento time even the note has began ...
You can't even set the release time while the note is played. Unless there is a way to do it..

AND !

I don't find how to do this... I don't find in the manual either. I'm with K4 and the manual is still without a good index. While the other NI manuals have got a good one.

Is it possible and if it is, how does one handle it ?

Thanks...

JoPo

 

after note on, the envelope is triggered. When you hold a key while changing the sustain level, some instruments do not react until the next note is triggered.

 

Yes... But I also have seen some instrument wich were reacting at a sustain setting while the note is already triggered.
So, the question is : how are these intruments settled ?

 

I don't know. Maybe it is better to leave the envelope and control the volume level with a pedal or mod wheel.

 

The purpose is, for example, to set the portamento time when the note has already began. Or you've got a very long release time, the vol goes down slowly and you want that at a certain point the release goes faster, you send a midi event to do so... But right know, when I do it, the release time is the same as when the note was triggered.
I'm sure it must be possible, I don't find the way.

 

Hhhh...

Is there some NI technical guy around here who could give me an answer ?

Danke sehr..

 

I'm not a technical guy, I can just tell you what I do in such situations: if the sustain level has an influence after note-on, I can use it. If the sustain level has no influence after note-on, I use volume, VCA level, velocity, automation, volume pedal, whatever. Every instrument, be it hardware or software, has its strengths and weaknesses. One has to use the strengths and find a work-around for the weaknesses.

 

I said that I've seen instruments doing what I'm trying to do ! I just don't know how to do, so I'm asking here.

 

I know, but you can't change the code of the plugin that does not work as desired, can you? The behavior of an envelope is deep inside the plugin structure, changes can't be applied the easy way.

We are pretty much powerless in that area, I'm afraid to say. Of course we can contact the programmer and ask for this special feature, but from my experience this hardly ever comes to a result. In most cases the entire code must be re-written, and it is understandable that this won't be done.

As a windcontroller user I always need to control the loudness of a VSTi with a CC, and only few allow me to do that with the sustain level. Very few. The others which only allow volume control are less interesting, it sounds unnatural in certain cases (release gets cut). So I am forced to use only those VSTi's that work well, or add a MIDI foot controller for extra volume control, or use level automation in post which I hate. I bought a Behringer FCB1010 extra for such purposes. As I said many times, you have to look for a work-around yourself, the programmers of plugins may not even be aware of that problem.

Sorry about not giving you a solution for your problem. You still may try contacting the developers of your VSTi and tell them the issue. Who knows, maybe there is a solution? What I am trying to say is: do not waste too much time with that, and make some beautiful music with the tools that work well.

 

That sounds neat. How does it work? On my WX5 by the time a note-off is sent the volume is generally pretty low, and so therefore also would be the volume of the release tail if I used one. Be nice to experiment though.

As you say, Kontakt doesn't allow this, but if you think it is useful perhaps we should ask them to make it possible.

Stephen

 

I'm asking here, believing that NI people is reading and even, sometimes, answering.

The best example I can give is to change the speed of the portamento one's the note is already started : portamento is slow and then become fast... Or the attack time is very long, the note starts slowly and after a wild, the attack time becomes fast by sending a midi cc. Right now, I can't do it with K4.
I repeat again an other thing : I've seen Kontakt instruments wich I bought (Kontakt sample bank) doing that (!) but when I try myself, it doesn't work, so I conclude that there is a way to do so, a parameter somewhere or something... And, because I don't find it, I'm asking here how to do. I know that I can find some other ways to do so in Kontakt 4, and that's what I do, but it's not convenient. If you don't know, I may understand very well : I don't know it either.

Perhaps, someone else mays answer me if he has got the solution. I don't think it was a script in the instrument wich I saw doing it.

 

I have experimented with envelopes, sending ccs after the note has been played.

1. I don't see how you can alter the Attack time after a note has been played.

2. In Kontakt 4, Sustain level doesn't respond to ccs after that stage of the envelope has been reached.

3. But Release time does respond after the note has been struck. Maybe this is what you saw.

Whether 2. could be done with a script using set_engine_par or something I have no idea. Unlkely I would think. (There are a number of KSP forums where you could ask)

If you have an instrument which can control Sustain level after the note has been struck I would be most interested to see it. Delete all samples in the mapping editor before posting it.

 

Very good question you bring up. I would like to know how to do this too!

 

as a NI customer, you are entitled to get professional technical support. But you have to address the issue to the right place (technical support, not a user forum).:lol: Now you surely hate me, but that's the way it goes.