Feature Request: Denon SC5000 HID Support

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by hellnegative, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. hellnegative

    hellnegative NI Product Owner

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    With the realease of Traktor Pro 3, a lot of people are leaving Serato and going back to Traktor (myself included). Mostly this is due to being able to use DVS with EVERY audio interface (so far I have tested it on a DJM 750MK2, Mixars Duo, Reloop RMX90 DVS, and a UA Apollo). It would be great if I was able to keep the setup simplified by having my SC5000's work with Traktor Pro 3 in HID mode.

    I am also posting this request on the Denon DJ Forums.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Nelson Nailat

    Nelson Nailat New Member

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    Cool.

    Glad to hear someone's tried DVS with various audio interfaces. I've been curious about that as well. If only NI could make any MIDI device HID-able...
     
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  3. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Huge discounts on these right now, so I'm guessing they haven't sold well. It's a shame because I think they look fantastic.
     
  4. Kevin Becher

    Kevin Becher NI Product Owner

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    They are (in theory) great devices.

    But Denon does not fix their numerous shortcomings.
    Outdated pitch resolution (0.05), asymmetric jog bend, non-standard loop move behavior, sound issues (high end roll off), no midi, no Traktor HID.

    After waiting a year and a half and seeing so many issues being ignored I finally decided against them.
    What a waste of potential...
     
  5. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Can you go into more detail? The pitch resolution really doesn't seem like a massive issue, and I guess Traktor HID is at least 50% up to NI. Are they not midi mappable at all?
     
  6. ErikMinekus

    ErikMinekus NI Product Owner

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    Nope, the SC5000 does not support MIDI, only HID.
     
  7. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    That's a bit crap. Can that be fixed with a firmware update, or is it missing a fundamental hardware component?
     
  8. ErikMinekus

    ErikMinekus NI Product Owner

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    I think it's possible to add it via firmware, but so far Denon has shown no interest in doing that.
     
  9. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Presumably lack of sales influencing that.
     
  10. MixMasterG

    MixMasterG NI Product Owner

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    As long as Denon does not support loading tracks into the players directly form their own collection management software Engine Prime I think the changes of others being able to implement this fully will be slim. I know about the Serato HID but it's far from perfect. I love using these players with my (Traktor prepared) collection but I've got to jump through a few hoops to get it all working. I can understand how this might scare other (less 'geeky' minded) DJs away from the Prime ecosystem. Laidback Luke dropped in his latest video there is new hardware on the horizon early 2019

    time index 6:28. I think that's where your pricecuts come from. Let's hope Denon DJ will not abandon the early adopters like yours truly because my list of desired options to be implemented is long. Starting with a phase indicator that makes sense and does not require sync to be active. Since I'm used to it one similar to Traktor's would be great. For those interested here is a shortcut to get from your native Traktor collection to a USB that will work straight in the SC5000, including cues, loops both with colors and names and even more important maintaining your Traktor BPM with 2 digits precission.
     
  11. Kevin Becher

    Kevin Becher NI Product Owner

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    Pitch resolution used to be 0.01%, but in FW 1.0.3 was reduced to 0.05% - so the players are capable of a better resolution.

    Ignoring Traktor for such a long time (and a Serato HID support that is more than lacking) is strange.
    Aiming to replace Pioneer DJ in booths, those software integrations seem like a basic box to tick.

    Same goes for the jog bend.
    When nudging a track forward (speeding up) the jog is double as sensitive as when nudging backwards (slowing down).
    EVERY device on the market has the same nudging sensitivity in both directions.
    Why on earth would you go asymmetric?
    The only outcome is, that the jog feels weird to anyone coming from a competitor's device.

    Also, moving a loop forward is non-standard.
    You would expect to see both the loop and the play head move forward.
    But the play head rather continues to play normally until it catches up the loop in point and then re-enters the loop.

    These shortcomings have been known since at least January!
     
  12. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Fair enough. It's a lot to invest in a product with strange design choices.
     
  13. hellnegative

    hellnegative NI Product Owner

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    So the pitch resolution is only for the display. I noticed a large space before resolution change when mixing in 8% and 4% modes, but there was an audible change in pitch throughout the movement, so I incrementally changed and recorded as doing so. Then I dropped the recording into cubase and chopped it by section of movement. We still do have .01% to .02% pitch resolution on the players. It just does not display on screen. I am assuming that they removed the displayed resolution differences to save on a couple lines in code or something silly.

    On a side note, Denon has been pretty uick to fix issues with multiple updates to the players this year alone. Give them time.
     
  14. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Why would you save on code that's already in there?
     
  15. Kevin Becher

    Kevin Becher NI Product Owner

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    That's even worse :D:p
     
  16. hellnegative

    hellnegative NI Product Owner

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    Hard to tell, but they wouldn't have removed it without reason.
     
  17. [chris b]

    [chris b] NI Product Owner

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    Or it's a bug
     
  18. Kevin Becher

    Kevin Becher NI Product Owner

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    Press release for fw 1.0.3 (that's the version where the more coarse resolution was introduced) states the following:

    "Adjusted pitch resolution for more accurate BPM setting during DJ performance"

    I can't see how the new resolution is more accurate, it's rather the opposite.

    It's not a bug - it's a feature.
     
  19. Dinos Georgiou

    Dinos Georgiou New Member

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    come on ... i want to use my sc5000 with traktor!
     
  20. Sussudio

    Sussudio NI Product Owner

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